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Why is there only one Snap Store?

merlijn.sebrechts.be

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Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#21

Post by geofft »

war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

The LXC/LXD folks at Canonical are doing great work with adding kernel features for namespaces etc.

I think the "problem" is that Canonical has figured out - correctly - that all their worthwhile stuff needs to be done upstream of Ubuntu. Even their packagers know to try to get things in Debian first and to reduce diffs when they can. Unfortunately, that means that the unique Ubuntu secret sauce is all the weird stuff that no upstream wants, and if you're in no hurry to upgrade, you may as well run Debian.

This is pretty good for the world but I worry about the sustainability of Canonical as a company. I'm worried they'll end up like Mozilla - senior management finally realizes that doing excellent technical work in upstream communities isn't a net positive for their bottom line and has no idea how to remediate that other than layoffs.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#22

Post by Barrin92 »

ISL wrote: post #2

Debian user here, who has apparently missed the memo: What do snaps do that apt doesn't?

snaps are self-contained apps that ship with their own dependencies, so you get software directly from the developer and you'll be on whatever version they ship.

software installed with apt on Debian is fixed until the next release (unless you're on testing/unstable), so that would be the biggest difference.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#23

Post by aiphieng »

MereInterest wrote: post #12
simion314 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding the new packaging is designed to move the control from the distribution maintainer to the developer. So depending on software and distribution you get a range of advantages and disadvantages. You can continue using apt, snap, flatpack,Stram and binaries from tar.gz so we only gained in choices.

Also, moving control from the user to the developer. Snaps automatically update, and until recently had no way to disable this behavior. This is a poor security choice, and means that a stable system cannot be made. While apt can still be used, many packages were replaced by snaps, completely defeating the purpose.

"many packages" as in "less than 10 out of 10s of thousands".

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#24

Post by war1025 »

dyingkneepad wrote: post #18
war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

Things they're currently doing that benefit the larger Linux community as a whole: - still engaging with vendors into making hardware work on Linux - they're contributing optimizations to gnome 3 - their still massive user base is testing stuff, discovering bugs and then those things get fixed upstream or at least get into Debian - making bad decisions so people jump off Ubuntu and go back to Debian, my beloved distr…

> - making bad decisions so people jump off Ubuntu and go back to Debian, my beloved distro

Amen. Debian is the best.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#25

Post by simion314 »

MereInterest wrote: post #12
simion314 wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding the new packaging is designed to move the control from the distribution maintainer to the developer. So depending on software and distribution you get a range of advantages and disadvantages. You can continue using apt, snap, flatpack,Stram and binaries from tar.gz so we only gained in choices.

Also, moving control from the user to the developer. Snaps automatically update, and until recently had no way to disable this behavior. This is a poor security choice, and means that a stable system cannot be made. While apt can still be used, many packages were replaced by snaps, completely defeating the purpose.

>While apt can still be used, many packages were replaced by snaps, completely defeating the purpose.

From my understanding there are not many snaps installed by default, and the ones installed by default are Canonical ones not some Solitaire game you found on a piracy website.

The issue with deb is you need to install the package as root. For example I needed a program to inspect a PDF, I found "PDF Master" and it had a .deb installed , but should I trust this program installer? Because I understand how deb works I downloaded the file, unpacked it and run the application without installing it, we need something that allows us Linux users to run random binaries without giving them root and would be cool if we had easy to use sandboxing and firewalls to prevent this apps connecting to who know what.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#26

Post by AsyncAwait »

spanhandler wrote: post #11
ISL wrote: post #2

Debian user here, who has apparently missed the memo: What do snaps do that apt doesn't?

Pollute your mount list and make your software start way slower and take up more space. Also sometimes break or require intervention for basic operation due to security restrictions on it. The benefits are supposed to be that they're more secure, more portable, and don't junk up your system with files strewn everywhere. Personally I'm waiting for a better solution than anything we've seen so far for the first of thos…

What's so impressive about Homebrew specifically?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#27

Post by inetknght »

Barrin92 wrote: post #22
ISL wrote: post #2

Debian user here, who has apparently missed the memo: What do snaps do that apt doesn't?

snaps are self-contained apps that ship with their own dependencies, so you get software directly from the developer and you'll be on whatever version they ship. software installed with apt on Debian is fixed until the next release (unless you're on testing/unstable), so that would be the biggest difference.

So a snap is a more complicated version of a statically-built binary?

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#28

Post by acoard »

spanhandler wrote: post #16
war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

They keep spending effort/money on projects competing with something Red Hat's doing, then getting trounced by Red Hat—sometimes politically, sometimes technically, sometimes both—but continuing to spend effort/money long after it's clear they've lost. I have to imagine that's a big drag on them.

Can you list some examples? The more the better. Much appreciated.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#29

Post by spanhandler »

boogies wrote: post #19
spanhandler wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pollute your mount list and make your software start way slower and take up more space. Also sometimes break or require intervention for basic operation due to security restrictions on it. The benefits are supposed to be that they're more secure, more portable, and don't junk up your system with files strewn everywhere. Personally I'm waiting for a better solution than anything we've seen so far for the first of thos…

I'm curious to try GNU Guix, does it sufffer from the same problems as Nix? (Edit: looking at https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/everyday-use-of-gnu-guix,-par... from the top of https://guix.gnu.org/ , basic installation and removal of packages looks exactly like apt, literally the same command line with 'apt' replaced with 'guix' and 'sudo' unnecessary because you can install packages per user.)

I admit I've not checked and have just assumed the package list is both ideologically- and mindshare-crippled, due to the GNU on the name and the seemingly low rate of use, respectively.

Nb I think free software goals are great and all but if I need Slack for work or need my proprietary wifi card to work using a binary blob then I f#cking need those things, and it's nice if my package manager can install them for me. It's also nice if it's got enough eyes on it that I essentially never run into a broken package, even when installing kinda-obscure things.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#30

Post by gjsman-1000 »

acoard wrote: post #28
spanhandler wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They keep spending effort/money on projects competing with something Red Hat's doing, then getting trounced by Red Hat—sometimes politically, sometimes technically, sometimes both—but continuing to spend effort/money long after it's clear they've lost. I have to imagine that's a big drag on them.

Can you list some examples? The more the better. Much appreciated.

Red Hat: Hires Alex to work on Flatpak. Loved by Community, almost a dozen distros supporting Flatpak as a next-gen package format by default.

Snap: Loved only by Canonical devotees. Zero distros supporting Snap exclusively by default.

Red Hat: SystemD

Canonical: Upstart, dead to SystemD.

Red Hat & Others: Wayland

Canonical: Mir. Dead to Wayland.

Red Hat & Others: GNOME 3

Canonical: Unity1-7. Dead to GNOME.

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