Why is there only one Snap Store? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#11

Post by spanhandler » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

ISL wrote: post #2

Debian user here, who has apparently missed the memo: What do snaps do that apt doesn't?

Pollute your mount list and make your software start way slower and take up more space. Also sometimes break or require intervention for basic operation due to security restrictions on it.

The benefits are supposed to be that they're more secure, more portable, and don't junk up your system with files strewn everywhere.

Personally I'm waiting for a better solution than anything we've seen so far for the first of those benefits, and would prefer a cross-platform user-oriented package manager like Homebrew or Nix (but better-supported-on-Linux in the former case and with a UX less like studying for a math exam in the latter) for the other two. IMO every solution to these problems on Linux desktop currently sucks to one degree or another.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#12

Post by MereInterest » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:00 PM UTC

simion314 wrote: post #7

ISL wrote: post #2

Debian user here, who has apparently missed the memo: What do snaps do that apt doesn't?

From my understanding the new packaging is designed to move the control from the distribution maintainer to the developer. So depending on software and distribution you get a range of advantages and disadvantages. You can continue using apt, snap, flatpack,Stram and binaries from tar.gz so we only gained in choices.

Also, moving control from the user to the developer. Snaps automatically update, and until recently had no way to disable this behavior. This is a poor security choice, and means that a stable system cannot be made.

While apt can still be used, many packages were replaced by snaps, completely defeating the purpose.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#13

Post by gjsman-1000 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:01 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

Well, they spent several years on Unity8+Mir, and then abandoned it went that went nowhere.

They then pivoted to Snaps, where they are so proud of themselves on their echo chamber of a forum that they can't see that the end users are less than impressed.

Honestly, I've stopped paying attention because Ubuntu is great at building technology with critical, mind-bogglingly obvious flaws that sink the project every time.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#14

Post by clvx » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

I do like the snap concept, but some implementations are just not that great. For instance, kustomize as snap doesn't let you read anything outside that is not in the snap fs. Not even in --classic mode. A similar issue happens with nextcloud which is good on paper, but if you tweak something inside the snap fs it will be overridden in the next update(expected behavior); however, for services that require mutable configuration there needs to be a way to preserve that data (I tested that nextcloud behavior more than half a year ago).

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#15

Post by Barrin92 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:03 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

As a desktop system maybe slightly, although the change is probably hugely overstated because of very loud subsegments of online communities. Most developers I've seen running linux either run Ubuntu or Fedora and I've rarely ever seen anything else, and that has to be a huge portion of the desktop/laptop segment.

On the server if anything it seems like Ubuntu has gotten stronger.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#16

Post by spanhandler » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

They keep spending effort/money on projects competing with something Red Hat's doing, then getting trounced by Red Hat—sometimes politically, sometimes technically, sometimes both—but continuing to spend effort/money long after it's clear they've lost. I have to imagine that's a big drag on them.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#17

Post by simion314 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

I think they stopped trying new risky things and focusing on survival, there is a large number of people(not a majority though) that regret the fact we did not get the Ubuntu Phone, and the Qt based DE Unity8.

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#18

Post by dyingkneepad » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

war1025 wrote: post #9

Semi-related: Does anyone else feel like Ubuntu has lost a lot of its momentum over the past few years? I don't hear about things they're doing nearly as often anymore.

Things they're currently doing that benefit the larger Linux community as a whole:

- still engaging with vendors into making hardware work on Linux

- they're contributing optimizations to gnome 3

- their still massive user base is testing stuff, discovering bugs and then those things get fixed upstream or at least get into Debian

- making bad decisions so people jump off Ubuntu and go back to Debian, my beloved distro

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#19

Post by boogies » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:08 PM UTC

spanhandler wrote: post #11

ISL wrote: post #2

Debian user here, who has apparently missed the memo: What do snaps do that apt doesn't?

Pollute your mount list and make your software start way slower and take up more space. Also sometimes break or require intervention for basic operation due to security restrictions on it. The benefits are supposed to be that they're more secure, more portable, and don't junk up your system with files strewn everywhere. Personally I'm waiting for a better solution than anything we've seen so far for the first of thos…

I'm curious to try GNU Guix, does it sufffer from the same problems as Nix?

(Edit: looking at https://guix.gnu.org/en/videos/everyday-use-of-gnu-guix,-par... from the top of https://guix.gnu.org/, basic installation and removal of packages looks exactly like apt, literally the same command line with 'apt' replaced with 'guix' and 'sudo' unnecessary because you can install packages per user.)

Re: Why is there only one Snap Store?

#20

Post by gjsman-1000 » Thu, Aug 13, 2020, 5:09 PM UTC

"Interestingly, Canonical actually released an open-source prototype Snap store backend a few years ago, but there was very little interest from the community in in actually maintaining and running a second Snap store, so the project bit-rotted and became incompatible with the current Snap protocol."

That open-source server was a single-python-file hacky prototype written in an employee's spare time. It's not surprising it got little interest.

Not only that, but this is the biggest omission of the truth: Making your own server is no longer possible because of assertions. All Snaps are now digitally signed by Canonical, so you actually need to have the end-user install a forked snap tool on their system to access the custom repository. You cannot disable this signing - your only way around it is to manually download the snap and install it with `--dangerous` through the CLI. And you won't get auto updates that way.