How are they justifying this? A linked blog post goes into more detail: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/en-US/news/announcing-epi...; but it seems like they are extending the payment processing tools which they built for web to mobile. There are loopholes but not clear which one they're claiming to use (if any).
Epic direct payment on mobile
111–120 of 371 posts
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
Isn’t that usually how monopolies start? They don’t lure you in with the slogan “you can only get it from us now”... The competition today is great, but they could easily become the next App Store tomorrow. I don’t personally have a problem with Apple taking a cut - they are doing work, after all, but I think it should be more along the lines of covering the transaction fees and less “we’re taking a third of your har…
The competition is broken, Steam still has a large majority of the marketshare, and they abuse it just like Apple does. Taking a cut is fine, but 30% margin is unconscionable and I applaud anyone that tries to break that paradigm.
Steam's monopoly is very different from Apple's since they only operate on already-open platforms. You can easily distribute your x86 game via any other store or your own launcher/website with little issue (only having to deal with the Oligopoly that is EV Code Signing, which you still might need to do while on Steam/Epic/etc). On Apple's platform, you have to go through them no matter what, making it impossible to put an app on iOS devices without their approval.
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
To be fair to Epic, they are/were offering developers a better deal than Steam. And they've done far more for gaming over the past decade than Valve, which hasn't been able to successfully innovate in the last two.
However, they're not offering ME a better deal. Let's see: - games aren't cheaper on the Epic store, in spite of the allegedly smaller cut the store is supposed to take - they're Windows only (and here comes the China reference, they only know about Windows in there) - their store still doesn't have a shopping cart (i may not be current on this)... reeks of incompetence? Can you trust them with your credit card info?…
Games aren't cheaper because Valve doesn't allow them to be cheaper on other storefronts, it's part of the agreement you sign with them to be on Steam.
Windows only is fine. From a purely pragmatic point of view, other platforms are such a small fraction of the gaming market, it really doesn't make sense to support them. Companies have tried supporting OSX and Linux for years (decades?) now, but there just aren't enough players to justify it (much less than 5%).
There is absolutely nothing wrong with Epic paying developers for exclusivity. There is fundamentally nothing different about that than Valve selling their own first-party game exclusively on their own store (Half-life, Portal, DOTA, etc).
If you don't know about Epic's contributions to gaming, then you're just out of touch. Fortnite is a huge deal, but there's also stuff like Gears of War, and of course Unreal Engine 4 itself.
I absolutely do think if Epic wins, it will be better both for consumers and game developers like myself. I don't think you understand the mindset of Tim Sweeney if you think he is super monopolist.
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Does this mean Epic will start allowing users of the Epic Games Store on PC to directly pay game developers and bypass the EGS cut? Are you asking whether Epic will start "allowing" people to buy PC games via direct purchase or steam or twitch or GOG the way they've been doing for decades?
No, I'm asking if they will allow people to buy digital PC titles on EGS via direct purchase to the developer and bypass the percentage EGS takes. People are bringing up digital currency or IAP, but if Epic is arguing for 'direct payments in all apps', why would this be limited solely to digital currency and not the digital item itself?
Because then Apple would have to implement alternative payment methods into the App Store, which seems unreasonable. They're arguing that inside the app it's the developer's responsibility to handle payments however they see fit.
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
Epic has no "walled garden". The PC is an open platform. An iPhone is not. If I don't like the Epic store, I can install software from other sources just fine. Good luck with that on iOS.
Epic has signed a significant number of games as Epic Games exclusives [0], making them not part of the open platform but only available via the Epic Store. How is that not a walled garden? [0] https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives
> How is that not a walled garden?
Huh? When people talk about iOS being a walled garden they're referring to the fact that iOS apps can only be bought and sold via Apple. Consumers on that platform have no alternatives, and if Apple doesn't want a given app sold then it can't be bought.
EGS exclusives are nothing like that - anybody can sell PC games any way they like. If some particular developer chooses to sell their game via EGS and not other stores, that's up to the developer.
It's not a walled garden if people can enter and exit any time they like.
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#116I love how they are "passing the savings down to us" from a non existing digital item that they set the price of. Ugh. Anyway, this should be absolutely fascinating to watch how the antitrust cases against the app stores go!
> a non existing digital item
That's a weird thing to read in a place populated by software people.
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#117Maybe the Apple cut is too high, but I don't think it's unreasonable for them to take some cut. They are providing the distribution platform to get your app to millions of users, it's not free for them to provide that service. They have their own server, bandwidth and employee costs too.
Considering the discount provided on console stores is 20% and not 30%, I think Epic probably agrees. It looks like the consoles are probably taking ~10-15% cuts compared to Apple's 30%, and Epic doesn't see this as worth challenging at the current time.
Consoles and marketplaces like Steam take 30% of digital game sales.
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#118Earlier quoted context omitted.
He’s only vocal because he wants to be valve. He plays his dirty to win market share.
I don’t think this benefits the Epic Store itself directly? And what’s wrong with a competitor to Steam?
Competition is great. But epics approach is dirty. A false hero to Developers and publishers.
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#119Isn't the cut 70% for inapp purchases? I'm all for this, but there seems to be a 10% gap?
Re: Epic direct payment on mobile
#120My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this. It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple's App Review. Apple will not take kindly to this. Best case scenario for Epic (and Fortnite players): they invite Sweeney in for some hard negotiations. Worst case: Fortnite ends up getting removed from iOS for this.
> My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this.
Of course, but that's beside the point. This is bait. Epic can point to it later as an example of how Apple's anti-competitive practices increase consumer prices. The worst-case scenario for Epic is that Fortnite gets removed from the App Store for a few days.
...well, I guess the worst worst-case scenario for Epic is that Fortnite gets banned permanently, but I don't see Apple doing that.