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Epic direct payment on mobile

epicgames.com

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Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#41

Post by ziddoap »

gsich wrote: post #23
superkuh wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, another monopolist trying to fill their garden. Epic is literally buying the companies behind long established games, removing game support for alternative OSes, and eventually only allowing access from "the epic store". No matter who wins between Epic and Apple human people lose. They're both walled garden monopolists.

Epic has no "walled garden". The PC is an open platform. An iPhone is not. If I don't like the Epic store, I can install software from other sources just fine. Good luck with that on iOS.

Epic has signed a significant number of games as Epic Games exclusives [0], making them not part of the open platform but only available via the Epic Store.

How is that not a walled garden?

[0]https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#42

Post by chrismeller »

gsich wrote: post #35
rurounijones wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can install software from other sources just fine Not when Epic paid the devs to make them exclusive (either permanently or time-limited): https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives Unless you are referring to warez as the other source, of coursse

I can install software from other sources just fine. Doesn't have to be the same software. But why is having the Epic store such a problem?

He wasn’t saying the store was a problem, he was saying that having the store with titles you have an exclusive license to is a problem.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#43

Post by mcny »

dgellow wrote: post #15
epaga wrote: post #3

My money is on Apple cracking down hard on this. It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple's App Review. Apple will not take kindly to this. Best case scenario for Epic (and Fortnite players): they invite Sweeney in for some hard negotiations. Worst case: Fortnite ends up getting removed from iOS for this.

> It looks clearly as if Epic remotely activated this direct payment option, thereby bypassing Apple's App Review. Is that against Apple's store terms? Because that's a common feature of ReactNative based app, you can update them by deploying new JS files without having to pass by a new app store release.

> Is that against Apple's store terms? Because that's a common feature of ReactNative based app, you can update them by deploying new JS files without having to pass by the a new app store release.

I think the point of contention is not that people can add new content without a full app store review. Any app that can access the Internet can do that[see rant below]. The point of contention is whether a direct payment option violates Apple guidelines.

Personally, I think adding a payment option should not violate guidelines. What should violate guidelines is if they do NOT offer Apple pay at a rate at or below their lowest price elsewhere. Yes, Apple gets a cut of the proceeds if the user chooses to use Apple pay. No, it should not against the law as long as Apple allows the user to pay using alternate means within the app.

No, the app publisher (Epic) may not

1. NOT offer Apple Pay (sorry for double negative)

2. Discourage users from using Apple Pay (rewarding people for using other payment options by means such as offering lower prices elsewhere, exclusive content, etc)

3. Make it difficult to use Apple Pay (by increasing friction as opposed to other means within the app, I'm a bit torn on this one).

I think all of these points are fair. The only thing I think Apple should allow is let people add payment method other than Apple Pay.

[rant] Unrelated rant: No third-party app (not published by Apple) should have access to the Internet by default. An app should prompt the user for the ability to access the Internet.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#44

Post by qppo »

superkuh wrote: post #21
devit wrote: post #10

Finally someone stands up to the monopolists!

Right, another monopolist trying to fill their garden. Epic is literally buying the companies behind long established games, removing game support for alternative OSes, and eventually only allowing access from "the epic store". No matter who wins between Epic and Apple human people lose. They're both walled garden monopolists.

To be fair to Epic, they are/were offering developers a better deal than Steam. And they've done far more for gaming over the past decade than Valve, which hasn't been able to successfully innovate in the last two.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#45

Post by jsnell »

actuator wrote: post #30
putzdown wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s possible Epic are baiting the app stores, betting that the current anti-trust questions around Apple and Google support a change. Either Apple and Google capitulate to this move by Epic, and Epic wins. Or Google and/or Apple come after Epic, creating a public scene that emphasizes their monopoly-like behavior, and failed lawsuits or government action mean a win for Epic. The third option—the big guys come after…

Edit: It seems like Play Store has a category restriction on Games without exceptions. Google doesn't force payments to go through its channels based on some conditions. A lot of app developers including Apple makes use of this. So it might just survive on Play Store.

Games and most apps must use Play's in-app purchases as the payment method: https://support.google.com/googleplay/android-developer/answ...

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#46

Post by meheleventyone »

ziddoap wrote: post #41
gsich wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Epic has no "walled garden". The PC is an open platform. An iPhone is not. If I don't like the Epic store, I can install software from other sources just fine. Good luck with that on iOS.

Epic has signed a significant number of games as Epic Games exclusives [0], making them not part of the open platform but only available via the Epic Store. How is that not a walled garden? [0] https://www.gamewatcher.com/news/Epic-games-store-exclusives

I think most if not all are time limited exclusives.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#47

Post by cloudking »

Maybe the Apple cut is too high, but I don't think it's unreasonable for them to take some cut. They are providing the distribution platform to get your app to millions of users, it's not free for them to provide that service. They have their own server, bandwidth and employee costs too.

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#48

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

minimaxir wrote: post #40

The Apple/antitrust angle has been covered, but this Direct payment bypass also affects Microsoft, Sony, Nintendo, and Google. Won't they take issue with it as well?

Apparently the cuts that Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo take are already acceptable to Epic. The announcement says that those users are getting the discount automatically without taking any action.

Starting today, any V-Bucks or real-money offers you purchase on PlayStation 4, Xbox One, Nintendo Switch, PC, and Mac are now discounted by up to 20%. You don’t need to do anything!

Re: Epic direct payment on mobile

#49

Post by umvi »

ary wrote: post #14

My guess is that this is a gambit to force Apple’s hand during a time when there is the most intense antitrust pressure over the App Store since it’s launch. If Apple cracks down then it’s just more fuel for the antitrust fire, and potentially evidence in court. If they allow it then it’s precedent that others can use to employ the same tactic. Either way it seems to me Epic is taking a calculated risk to induce chan…

I love it when big companies play abstract strategic games with each other like this. Competition at its finest.
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