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NSA Owns Everything (2015)

blog.thinkst.com

151–160 of 265 posts

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#151
post #5

The basic premise is false. > "Why did we never see it coming?" Many people saw it coming. I was warning about the possibility of dragnet surveillance, the existence of ECHELON, the use of the American security apparatus to steal trade secrets, the surveillance of non-American politicians, et al... For many, many years before Snowden. And I'm just some rando on the internet who follows the mainstream news! We were ca…

>why is it still ridiculed to say it might be happening? This thread is full of opportunities for me to contribute, but this is the comment that is the most important. I've spent a long time sifting through conspiracy theories, and I came to a conclusion at one point that the most important thing in the world the oligarchs and TPTB have at their disposal is control and influence of various degrees on the mass media i…

I'd be interested in you going specific, even if in private. Good to have critical thinking researchers out there.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#152

The difference between a theory, a conspiracy theory and the truth are best described by varying levels of evidence. A theory is not currently accepted as the truth, but it might be the truth. A conspiracy theory is something that has been proven to be untrue, but people still believe it and pass it on. The truth is the internally consistent and fact supported state of the world as it was and as it is. There were man…

How close is difference between theory and conspiracy, if the main actor does not want you to know something?

One of the strategies can be to completely poison information, as you said "label". In that way it would be hard to distinguish between "true" and "untrue", and in that way basically force researchers to even approaching subject. In that way only person from inside could uncover truth... I guess ...

And this is same problem like with corrupt government, if they hold all the keys it is very hard to overthrow dictator, as it is very hard for truth to surface out.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#153
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Him being there makes Russia look more tolerant than his home country.. Which is already a Pretty big bonus.

how does giving asylum to a defector from an adversary make russia look tolerant? don't you think the US would happily do the same thing if the tables were turned?

The US routinely does the same, and they generally receive some amount of praise from the population as a result. The same thing would happen in Russia.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#154
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China are hacking the US left and right Can you proof that or is that maybe something the CIA or the Pentagon would say?

One potential example is the seeded Supermicro chipsets that bloomberg ran a big piece on, though that's still somewhat up in the air as far as I know. Generally though it's quite hard to tell what's real.

There is absolutely no proof for that. No one found that chip.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-supermicro-chips/super-mi...

And:

Apple, Amazon and U.S. and U.K. officials have all said they have no knowledge of any hardware attacks via Super Micro

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#155
post #48

Yet somehow Russian / China are hacking the US left and right. If the NSA is so good, then at some point dont they have the responsibility to actively defend?

Buying Facebook ads and making fake accounts is not "hacking".

Gaining unauthorized access to the DNC's and RNC's email systems and Podesta's Gmail account is "hacking."

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#156

The difference between a theory, a conspiracy theory and the truth are best described by varying levels of evidence. A theory is not currently accepted as the truth, but it might be the truth. A conspiracy theory is something that has been proven to be untrue, but people still believe it and pass it on. The truth is the internally consistent and fact supported state of the world as it was and as it is. There were man…

> All it took was one person willing to burn their career to provide the proof. So many of the below posts are about all kinds of crazy conspiracy theories (most of them vastly overreach the competence of the USA), but this part hits the nail. USA's problem is the culture. The idea that if each person pursues their own self-interest it will amount, in aggregate, to the best possible outcome - this is totally flawed.…

> Your individualism leads not to "freedom" but to accountants who help companies dodge (not avoid) tax, to politicians who don't speak up because it will damage their career, to bankers who extend credit when they know it's unsustainable in pursuit of their bonus, to news anchors who hold their tongue to avoid upsetting sponsors, on and on.

Every one of your complaints is a criticism of institutional incentives and publicly traded corporations rather than individualism.

There is no journalist alive who prefers, as an individual, to hold their tongue to avoid antagonizing sponsors. The possibility of doing otherwise was only ever enabled by the members of the local community who had enough resources to not have to care about losing sponsors by doing the right thing, and who were then willing to stand behind the journalists as the owners of the media company.

Today the companies are publicly traded, and doing that costs the shareholders money (or the parties votes, for political institutions), so anybody who does it is replaced by someone who doesn't. That is what's wrong. But that, ironically, is the consequence of a form of collective ownership. It's the principal-agent problem, where the shareholders as people don't actually want that but the institution is configured to prioritize making more money and you, as the owner of a retirement account which is the owner of an index fund which is the owner of a corporation, are not actually consulted on the decisions being made in your name.

Much of this would be solved if we had fewer layers of indirection between the principals and the agents, i.e. more smaller companies rather than fewer larger ones, or government which is more local and less central, so that the stakeholders who never wanted any of this to begin with are closer to the decisions that are being made in ways they don't prefer and have a better chance of causing them to be made in a different way. That's more of an increase in individualism than anything, though.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#157
post #148
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Him being there makes Russia look more tolerant than his home country.. Which is already a Pretty big bonus.

At this point is there a compelling heuristic we can use to determine if Snowden is an idealistic whistleblower or simply a Russian intelligence asset? The facts seem to support both interpretations.

The facts absolutely do not support either interpretation. The only reason Snowden is in Russia is that the US canceled his passport.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#158
post #91

The Snowden stuff was the event that shook me to my core. I was a happy technologist till then, thinking that such was the nature of life and progress simply was unfolding in front of me. However, the way the event was covered by the media - told a different story. The media focussed on the man rather than the info he provided, so the conversation was 'where was he?', 'where was his girlfriend?', etc - that told me e…

I found this comment so shocking I went and read your post history and I'm really interested how this view arises. Can I ask your background that made you think this way?

My background is a technologist who observed the Snowden story. I followed some of the details and was genuinely shocked at the revelations therein. I was looking at HN for more info at the time. But I also followed main stream media. The gulf between the technical details that were reported on HN and mainstream news sites was so large, it was clear to me that a damage limitation exercise was being undertaken. That in itself raised loads more questions for me.

Here's a link to a video on Snowden's disappearing glasses: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5QqxLalvh-4

Cutting to the chase, if it is as I suggest it is - that most media is there as part of the governance structure to beam a particular type of messaging to us - you then have a few options.

You can refuse what I say, and accept the media as is presented. This is surely the path of least resistance.

If you care about the truth, you can look more deeply and research all ideas before accepting them as true. Just because you see something on TV does not make it true. My thesis is that news media is just production of a show, like a film or cartoon. You don't trust films or cartoons - so don't trust the news. Here's a fun example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cDYKXMkSRs - check the folder change colour live on the news! Is it fair enough to manipulate what we see on account of a "green" budget?

My bottom line nowadays, philosophically speaking, is that I am only prepared to accept as true that which I can confirm for myself via my own experience. This may sound a weak position, and it is perhaps. But I stand on solid ground as I am personally able to verify whatever I claim.

With regards to events that are presented in the media, I take an aggressive deconstructive position, and ask questions such as: have I been provided evidence, am I being emotionally manipulated, is the story coherent, etc. I find my questioning frequently provides evidence that the story is not coherent, and can be dismissed. That again may sound weak, but the thing with truth is that it is resilient and not incoherent - when you are presented with an incoherent story then you can dismiss and ignore _all_ of it.

So, my default position with media stories is to autohoax them and to lend far greater weight to personal experience.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#159
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We were called Conspiracy Theorists ... It was a theory that there was a conspiracy. The issue is that people dismiss conspiracy theories out of hand - even when the theory is backed by means, motive and incentives. "This power is being used to influence the political process in the US" is still a conspiracy theory and will likely turn out to be true as well one day - because again the people involved have means, m…

I've long wondered how to side step the "conspiracy theorist" pejorative. Personal interest. A local newspaper called me a "sweaty paranoid kook". All true. But also a distraction from the lede. There must be a Luntzian phrase for believing in proven conspiracies.

I feel like Luntz would like "conspiracy realist." Or maybe that's more of a Stallmanism.

Re: NSA Owns Everything (2015)

#160
post #5

The basic premise is false. > "Why did we never see it coming?" Many people saw it coming. I was warning about the possibility of dragnet surveillance, the existence of ECHELON, the use of the American security apparatus to steal trade secrets, the surveillance of non-American politicians, et al... For many, many years before Snowden. And I'm just some rando on the internet who follows the mainstream news! We were ca…

>why is it still ridiculed to say it might be happening? This thread is full of opportunities for me to contribute, but this is the comment that is the most important. I've spent a long time sifting through conspiracy theories, and I came to a conclusion at one point that the most important thing in the world the oligarchs and TPTB have at their disposal is control and influence of various degrees on the mass media i…

> These reasons are also why the oligarchs are after control of the internet. As a withering but still standing bastion of anarchistic freedom of speech, it is their primary threat right now.

"As the Americans learned so painfully in Earth's final century, free flow of information is the only safeguard against tyranny. The once-chained people whose leaders at last lose their grip on information flow will soon burst with freedom and vitality, but the free nation gradually constricting its grip on public discourse has begun its rapid slide into despotism. Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master."

- Commissioner Pravin Lal, Peacekeeping Forces (Alpha Centauri, 1999)

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