Let’s hope it work out like toysˋrˋus:
Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
121–130 of 149 posts
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#122I think the union rep from Handels is correct. They'll get Amazon to cave. Amazon is the quintessential hill to die on for the unions and the labour laws are incredibly strong in Sweden. Here's how I think it might play out if Amazon refuses to sign: - Handels requests collective bargaining - Amazon declines but are sued in court and loses (you are required to bargain) - Negotiations fail and Amazon refuses to sign -…
> They'll get Amazon to cave. I'm not so sure, and I'll explain why below on one of your points. > in the end garbage collectors will refuse to pick up garbage at their warehouse. Electricians will refuse to service their warehouse. Plumbers will not plumb. Workers, builders, postmen etc will all simply stop servicing Amazon. Companies that deal with Amazon can also be put in a blockade. Outside of employing builders…
You can hire your own cleaning staff obviously (how very 1980's) but it's going to be extrenmely difficult and expensive to be self sufficient on everything from water, garbage pickup, electricity and so on.
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
How would they be able to leverage demand? I can't see our politicians wanting to get involved in this fight, especially not on Amazon's side. Why would they want to support Amazon against both unions and againast Swedish companies? I think they will just remove themselves from the conflict and let it play out. I can't see a scenario where Amazon does not have to agree to collective bargaining.
Swedish naiveté always amazes me.
One of the key things about the Swedish labour market model is that both sides of the political spectrum find it (agreements) better than the alternative (rigid laws for e.g. minimum wages). The same goes for both ends of the agreements (the employers' organizations and the unions).
This is why it works. It's also why it isn't very sensitive to corruption and political changes.
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
Feel free to explain a plausible scenario where Amazon wins an all-out fight with the unions, then.
Very simple, they'll just stage most operations outside of Sweden but inside the EU and run deliveries to Sweden that way. More or less like things are now, really.
That's what they already do. So establishing operations in Sweden means that isn't enough.
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#125What a weird article. Loads of international companies operate in countries with wildly different laws, standards of living, disposable income, etc. Why compare Sweden with a Polish warehouse workers and not investigate how e.g. Amazon.fr operates? That country at least goes on strike significantly more often (probably more so than the rest of the EU combined). Meaning, one year I noticed them on strike every other w…
I don't know if you've quite understood how Swedish labor law differs from the French. Sweden is a little unique in that we have fewer strikes than most European countries. The reason is the "fredsplikt": as long as there is a collective bargaining agreement in place, if a worker goes on strike they can be legally laid off for shirking work. So, strikes will only happen at most every two-three years when the current…
> The reason is the "fredsplikt": as long as there is a collective bargaining agreement in place, if a worker goes on strike they can be legally laid off for shirking work.
I don't believe this is strictly true. The "fredsplikt" (lit. "Duty of Peace") only applies to members of a signing, or co-signing union. So while the benefits of the collective bargaining agreement apply to all employees, the "sacrifices" do not apply to members of, say, other unions that do not sign the agreement. The most common example of this in practice is "SAC Syndikalisterna".
In practice though, strikes are unusual as they are a very ineffective means of negotiation unless very large, and therefore very expensive.
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#126Agree that Amazon won't upend the Swedish labor market model. But do they really need to do that to operate with a healthy profit?
And if they think they need to revolutionize the labor market to be profitable (enough), would they really establish a presence in Sweden then?
My feeling is they'll establish a business like everyone else and not even try to pull a Toys'R'Us.
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Thanks. Do you know why the counterfeit problem does not seem as much of a problem here?
I live in the US and out of hundreds (thousands?) of purchases only one or two have made me question if they were counterfeit, and even those worked well enough and I didn't return them. There may be a selection bias in the comments you read because the countless people like me never post their experience and the 0.001% who unluckily were repeatedly sold counterfeit will likely post about it.
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Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
What requirements did they place on amazon then?
The French government placed on Amazon, AND every other online sellers, restrictions on what type of product could be sold: only first necessity items. The only one refusing to comply, and loudly at that, was Amazon. Put itself above the law to gain a competitive advantage is unacceptable to me. And now they are making a lot of publicity on tv to remend the damage. A little too late, I'm boycotting them personally.
The fines were enormous for every violation, and EU courts have been doing billion dollar fines of these companies - why in the world would you operate one warehouse doing 10% volume (90% shutdown already) facing huge fines?
They complied with the law and shut down. This further limited covid risks for their workers.
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#129I think the union rep from Handels is correct. They'll get Amazon to cave. Amazon is the quintessential hill to die on for the unions and the labour laws are incredibly strong in Sweden. Here's how I think it might play out if Amazon refuses to sign: - Handels requests collective bargaining - Amazon declines but are sued in court and loses (you are required to bargain) - Negotiations fail and Amazon refuses to sign -…
This sounds like a political system for people that actually works for people not against them.
It has adverse effects, the unemployment rate and particularly the youth unemployment rate are quite high in Sweden (pre-covid).
Indeed, the median disposable income per person (adjusted for purchasing power) in the US is almost $20,000 higher than in Sweden, even after further adjustments for transfers in kind received by households, such health or education provided for free or at reduced prices by government and NPISHs.
Re: Amazon’s business model meets Sweden’s labor unions
#130Thanks to strong unions and labor laws Sweden is the worker's paradise and everybody has a great job. If Amazon wants to entice people to work for them then they must make a better offer than all* existing employers. What is there for the unions to negotiate? Please don't bash me for the cynicism. I am trying to figure out the logic behind all of this.
* edit: What meant say is that Amazon must offer a job that's better than the jobs that people currently have for them to switch.