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Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#941

Post by zentiggr »

AOsborn wrote: post #684
staycoolboy wrote: post #595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> inviting a tidal wave of eye rolls. That depends entirely on how the reader feels about diversity. EDIT: I made a claim that the reader's reaction depends on what the reader is thinking, and six people claimed I was wrong, which means they can read minds. Nice. Critical thinking means removing your emotional bias from analysis.

I don't agree. I think the whole press release comes off quite dishonest and manipulative. I'm not quite sure who the intended audience of the release is. Releasing a statement announcing the layoff of many employees while trying to position the company as "a technical powerhouse of the internet activist movement" just screams insincerity.

To me it seems not so much insincere, but incoherent.

This all sounds like a bunch of grasping at big picture straws, not announcing a new actual direction.

I'd be very wary of what we hear from Mozilla leadership in the next few months.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#942

Post by crazypython »

gfodor wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

A common refrain, but is anything but obvious. Focusing on the browser could be a losing strategy. I'd argue it probably is. The trajectory is terrible: the tech is being commoditized (WebKit, Chromium) and the market share picture is bleak. The opportunity cost is huge: maintaining a web engine, one which basically just tries to keep up with the others put out by Google et al, takes armies of people that could perha…

> And that model is backed up by market share which is going down continuously

Firefox bugs that I have personally encountered as a user or developer I want fixed:

- localStorage implementation easily breaks during power failure https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1341070

- SVG rotation glitches

- Fails to correctly render the "Exo 2" font inside an SVG (Granted, for this one, it just made me switch fonts for my application.)

- Spidermonkey, as a JavaScript engine, is slow and the documentation (Perhaps it could be replaced with GraalJavaScript? An engine that lacks basic escape analysis is bad in my book.)

- Various bugs I am assisting them in resolving.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#943

Post by gvjddbnvdrbv »

gfodor wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

A common refrain, but is anything but obvious. Focusing on the browser could be a losing strategy. I'd argue it probably is. The trajectory is terrible: the tech is being commoditized (WebKit, Chromium) and the market share picture is bleak. The opportunity cost is huge: maintaining a web engine, one which basically just tries to keep up with the others put out by Google et al, takes armies of people that could perha…

Mozilla's whole purpose is Firefox (and Thunderbird).

If Mozilla exists without Firefox it has totally and utterly failed in its one purpose.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#944

Post by detaro »

gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #943
gfodor wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A common refrain, but is anything but obvious. Focusing on the browser could be a losing strategy. I'd argue it probably is. The trajectory is terrible: the tech is being commoditized (WebKit, Chromium) and the market share picture is bleak. The opportunity cost is huge: maintaining a web engine, one which basically just tries to keep up with the others put out by Google et al, takes armies of people that could perha…

Mozilla's whole purpose is Firefox (and Thunderbird). If Mozilla exists without Firefox it has totally and utterly failed in its one purpose.

> Mozilla's whole purpose is Firefox (and Thunderbird).

That's certainly not Mozilla's position on the matter.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#945

Post by gvjddbnvdrbv »

detaro wrote: post #944
gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #943

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla's whole purpose is Firefox (and Thunderbird). If Mozilla exists without Firefox it has totally and utterly failed in its one purpose.

> Mozilla's whole purpose is Firefox (and Thunderbird). That's certainly not Mozilla's position on the matter.

I and nearly everyone else even know who they are certainly don't care what Mozilla think about this. We know it as the custodian of Firefox and nothing more.

Beyond that my limited (and I do mean limited because I seriously don't care what they do as long as the browser remains FLOSS and high quality) understanding some political activists (with unrelated and potential laudable political agendas) have taken over financial control of Firefox development and are using it to fund their unrelated politics.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#946

Post by m4rtink »

eloisant wrote: post #921
dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

I think the issue is multifold, but basically from what I've seen (including having multiple friends at Mozilla and visited their HQ multiple times), Mozilla is run exactly like any other Silicon Valley company. Sure, there is no shareholders so there is this freedom, but people working there were basically hired after working in other tech companies, and they just work as they did in other tech companies. The fact t…

Well, that would explain why they are seemingly ignoring the Firefox power user and fan community, that got them where they are in the first place by free marketing and advocacy.

Looks like we dont fit their badly selected metric. :P

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#947

Post by xigency »

gfodor wrote: post #176
jacquesm wrote: post #95

Mozilla management has me puzzled. They have a position that is incredibly strong, lots of dedicated users that would rather quit the web than switch to Chrome or Edge. "But we know we also need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests" Is exactly what they should stay away from. Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. There a…

A common refrain, but is anything but obvious. Focusing on the browser could be a losing strategy. I'd argue it probably is. The trajectory is terrible: the tech is being commoditized (WebKit, Chromium) and the market share picture is bleak. The opportunity cost is huge: maintaining a web engine, one which basically just tries to keep up with the others put out by Google et al, takes armies of people that could perha…

I disagree on a couple of points. The idea that it takes armies of people to develop a web browser or that the Firefox's technology would be less relevant because of the existence of alternatives like WebKit.

WebKit had its beginnings by being borrowed from Konqueror, an open-source and little used web browse for Linux. That really underscores both how it's possible to develop a quality web browser with fewer resources and that having independent technology is useful. Safari wouldn't have been able to leap frog some other browsers if they weren't able to use WebKit to do it. And I think most readers of this site know that it is important that web technology doesn't become a monoculture.

Whether or not Mozilla can secure independent funding without Google, whether they are "viable" or "relevant". I think those questions are a distraction. The real question is, what is Mozilla's mission? Because if they aren't fulfilling the mission, those other factors are irrelevant. And it's clearly possible for them to do something useful in the browser realm even with 0 resources if they had to fall back on community contributions and be a project like Konqueror.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#948

Post by def_true_false »

jopsen wrote: post #918
stonogo wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not withering away because of minor mistakes; it's withering away because of major mistakes. Those mistakes are largely in corporate governance -- this is the reason so many are furious about the $2.5MM salary for a CEO at the helm of a market-share death spiral. Every single product line except Firefox is an also-ran from a revenue standpoint. How does Baker respond? Fire the Servo team, and tell an interviewer…

The argument for DRM is that it ships in a sandbox built by Mozilla. But hey, I'm sure that if Mozilla didn't ship DRM, video codecs, etc, the browser would have been more popular. Firefox is actually useful. DNS lookups are safer with a provider vetted by Mozilla. They were able to negotiate a contract you wouldn't have been able to get. Ensuring you more privacy. But sure bash Mozilla for trying to be pragmatic, pr…

Yeah, giving another 3rd party user data ensures the users more privacy.

You have some kind of doublethink going on there.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#949

Post by m4rtink »

JohnBooty wrote: post #786
dblohm7 wrote: post #258

[I am a Mozilla employee, and yes, I do recognize how my position influences my perspective.] One thing that always frustrates me a bit whenever Mozilla comes up on HN or elsewhere is that we are always held to impossibly high standards. Yes, as a non-profit, we should be held to higher standards, but not impossible standards. OTOH, sometimes it just seems unreasonable and absurd. Stuff like, to paraphrase, "Look at…

I don't mind any of Mozilla's mistakes. Like you say: Mozilla is exemplary when it comes to getting things right when they screw up. What I mind is that I can't take Mozilla seriously at all. They keep trying new projects. I laugh every time because I know it will be gone in six to twelve months. Right now Mozilla is offering VPN service. Theoretically, I am the ideal customer. I care about privacy and security and m…

Maybe they no longer just blindly copy Chrome but now also general Google behavior as well ? They also shut down recently started services at random.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#950

Post by gsich »

detaro wrote: post #944
gvjddbnvdrbv wrote: post #943

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mozilla's whole purpose is Firefox (and Thunderbird). If Mozilla exists without Firefox it has totally and utterly failed in its one purpose.

> Mozilla's whole purpose is Firefox (and Thunderbird). That's certainly not Mozilla's position on the matter.

That's why they are failing.
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