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Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

neomindlabs.com

391–400 of 441 posts

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#391
post #171

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

Not all companies need $500k engineers or can afford them. An optimization at Netflix that improves performance by 1% may save them millions of dollars. The same optimization at a medium-size company may only save them a few thousand. Also, it's much more difficult to quantify the impact of a software engineer compared to investment bankers and consultants. The latter two are directly making money for the firm.

I think as an employer you need to know when you have such an engineer, though, or be prepared to lose them.

I’d personally disagree with the cost effectiveness argument though. Unless your engineering work really cannot benefit from more skill (and as often as I’ve heard management think their work is relatively simple, in practice I’ve rarely seen it) then you’d have to replace a highly skilled engineer with a small team that would likely cost more than $500k. Packing your engineering firepower into as few bodies as possible is a highly cost efficient strategy, as most of the successful techs know.

On the other hand, a small team is less vulnerable to getting hit by a bus or hired out.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#393
post #3

> never underestimate the amount of money the FAANGs have to poach your talent. I really wish we'd stop using the word "poach". It's a loaded word with negative connotations, but what it really means here is "offer someone a better situation than you offered them". Employees have agency, they aren't wild elephants who need your "protection" from "predators" who just want to pay them more.

Offering a better than average package to attract talent is just a HR strategy, I agree. Poaching, on the other hand, usually does not mean that. It means targeting key people at competitors and specifically courting them to make them switch. Hence the analogy with hunting on someone else's land. I would also agree that the term tends to be overused.

Thanks for making me feel like slightly less of an insensitive clod for my choice of words.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#394

I agree with the author's point about using popular tech stacks to alleviate the ramp-up time for new hire productivity, but that is not the optimal solution. The optimal solution is for management to not let high-productivity talent from leaving - increase their comp to whatever offers they might get in the open market. That's how labor economic works - it's a market. Investment bank and management consulting figure…

Somewhat related to this point: A large conglomerate I worked for managed to kill one of their major products by making the mistake of assuming that programmers are easy to replace with any other skilled programmer. So they moved a product team to a new office, knowing that the highest-paid people on the team would not choose to relocate, and assuming it would be easy to backfill them with inexpensive new hires at th…

>So much so that the only people on the job market who had it were these folks whom they were ousting. All of whom had found positions at competitors within a day or two.

If they were the only people anywhere who had the critical domain expertise, then how could there be any competitors to snap them up?

This story doesn't sound internally consistent to me.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#395
post #380
post #200

Being on the receiving end of poaching is simply a failure to compete in arenas beyond compensation. Not only must you compensate your talent at the top of the market and then some (including generous equity), but you must give your employees an amazing work environment with excellent work/life balance, while providing something for them to work on that motivates them on an ideological level. When any part of this ae…

>Not only must you compensate your talent at the top of the market and then some (including generous equity) How is that actionable advice for companies competing with the richest companies in tech? You can indeed (hopefully) do the other things you say but you may simply not be able to afford to compensate them at top of market if that market includes Google or Netflix.

That's where equity comes in. However, equity is only worth something in any practical sense if it's fair and the employee truly believes in what they're doing.

Most startups offer joke equity that's subject to dilution games with salaries below market, while claiming they hire only the best.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#396
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am lost between not believing you and questioning what I am doing with my life.

It's about 180k for beginner level, 260k for the level above that, and 370k for seniors at G/FB [0]. And if you consider Chicago flyover, then you can get close to those numbers even in flyover as I'm in Chicago and pulling about 5% less than those numbers. Although it definitely is easier to find those jobs in NYC/Seattle/Bay area. [0]: https://www.levels.fyi/company/Facebook/salaries/Software-En...

You're saying that senior devs in Chicago are $350k? Because that doesn't jive with literally any piece of data I've seen. Even on the high side I can see somewhat reputable sources saying seniors are in the $180-200k range.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech companies do invest a certain amount into new-grads. If you are a new grad in Microsoft working on most products you will get a weeklong training on how to build apps on azure (equivilant to azure level 1 certificate). You will also get invited to these pretty cool speaking events where they bring in people who have had TED-talks to discuss your transition.

That's good to hear and MS is doing the right thing, but this is not the case at many other companies.

They could probably do more to make it an integrated experience (manager had no idea these things were happening). But I think Microsoft is trying to make people feel like they belong. If these events weren’t going on only CS graduates from top 20 CS schools would feel like they deserve to be there.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#398
post #78

And here I am, can't even get a recruiter from Netflix to reply, after submitting my resume on a job that I was match for 10/10 requirements on the description AND got someone to refer me.

When was this? Companies now are slowing hiring down a whole bunch

Pretty much last 5 years of my career

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#399
post #395
post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Not only must you compensate your talent at the top of the market and then some (including generous equity) How is that actionable advice for companies competing with the richest companies in tech? You can indeed (hopefully) do the other things you say but you may simply not be able to afford to compensate them at top of market if that market includes Google or Netflix.

That's where equity comes in. However, equity is only worth something in any practical sense if it's fair and the employee truly believes in what they're doing. Most startups offer joke equity that's subject to dilution games with salaries below market , while claiming they hire only the best.

Post dot-com though, options (now mostly RSUs) are hardly funny money any longer. So bets that my company will go up a whole lot more than Google to the degree that it covers $100K/year comp difference are still bets.

It's fairly clear to me (who doesn't (and haven't applied to) work at a West Coast tech giant) that if you can get a job at such, you will make more money. That's just the way things are. Of course, there are reasons to work elsewhere, but making the most money is probably not one of them.

Re: Developer won’t get hit by a bus, they’ll get hired by Netflix

#400
post #396
post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about 180k for beginner level, 260k for the level above that, and 370k for seniors at G/FB [0]. And if you consider Chicago flyover, then you can get close to those numbers even in flyover as I'm in Chicago and pulling about 5% less than those numbers. Although it definitely is easier to find those jobs in NYC/Seattle/Bay area. [0]: https://www.levels.fyi/company/Facebook/salaries/Software-En...

You're saying that senior devs in Chicago are $350k? Because that doesn't jive with literally any piece of data I've seen. Even on the high side I can see somewhat reputable sources saying seniors are in the $180-200k range.

Can get close to those numbers

Senior devs don't get those numbers on average in the bay either. Facebook/Google are the top (NFLX too but they only hire senior engineers) and few other companies close behind like amazon, apple and some fintech. I'm saying you can get those numbers because I myself am making 5% below those numbers (245k for mid level) in Chicago for what levels.fyi is showing what FB is paying for their engineers.

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