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Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

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Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#231

Post by Datenstrom »

wtetzner wrote: post #209
Datenstrom wrote: post #198

> "Recognizing that the old model where everything was free has consequences, means we must explore a range of different business opportunities and alternate value exchanges," Baker said. > We must learn and expand different ways to support ourselves and build a business that isn't what we see today. Perhaps I am wrong, but to me this reads as Mozilla plans to give up on not being evil and to do whatever it takes to…

Charging money doesn't necessarily mean they're going to start being evil. In fact, they may be able to provide better and more secure products, if it means they can stop relying on Google/advertising/etc. to stay afloat.

True, they could possibly spin out other high quality secure products and I hope that is what they do and that I am wrong. It all depends on the current leadership and how desperate they get I suppose and I am not familiar enough with that to say.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#232

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

sciurus wrote: post #7

250 people, roughly 25% of the company, were laid off today. This is on top of the 70 laid off in January (discussion of that at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=22057737 )

I feel like this should go down as one of the worst layoff announcements in history. The whole post seems to be an attempt to smooth over the layoffs with glorious language about the battle against systemic racism, internet freedom, etc. If I worked there, or was laid off, this would just make me more cynical.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#233

Post by syshum »

spinningslate wrote: post #210

I feel for everyone who will lose their job here. That's never a pleasant thing, particularly so in current circumstances. Notwithstanding that though - and with no disrespect to anyone being laid off - I'm actually really encouraged by this. The key quote from the announcement is this one: "Furthermore, Mozilla's contract with Google to include Google as the default search provider inside Firefox is set to expire la…

They need to get back to their roots of fighting for the user, open access, open standards, and privacy

The last few years, imo, they have been chasing market share by trying to play follow the leader with Google which have turned off a few major power users which was their core base

This is with out getting into some of the political based initiatives we have seen over the last few years as well

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#234

Post by billyhoffman »

“We need to focus...” followed by 5 different areas to focus on.

That’s not focusing.

“[We] need to go beyond the browser to give people new products and technologies that both excite them and represent their interests.”

What? Mozilla needs to build great products that solve people’s problems better than Google or whomever else does. That’s what Firefox did when it came out. It was objectively better than IE in ways that people could immediately grasp.

“Representing interests?” WTF are you even taking about? If you mean privacy and ownership of my personal data than say that.

“To start, that means products that mitigate harms or address the kinds of the problems that people face today. Over the longer run, our goal is to build new experiences that people love and want, that have better values and better characteristics inside those products.”

Mitigate harms? Again, WTF are we even talking about? Better values? Maybe this is the open source roots showing? But the majority of your business is based on selling default search engine rights to one of the most invasive harvesters of personal info, so let’s not pull that “values” thread too much here Mozilla.

Make awesome products and solve people problems better than your competitors. If you competition is doing scummy stuff, then tell people why your approach is better. Apple is doing an awesome job messaging the importance of privacy.

Come on Mozilla. Get in the damn game

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#236

Post by calcifer »

jacquesm wrote: post #201
eamsen wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How much are you willing to pay for a browser?

Let's turn that around: How much would it cost to run a lean-and-mean Mozilla that just focuses on FireFox? How much does it cost to run an unfocused Mozilla that tries very hard to compete with all those huge platforms out there? It's the latter company that I would not be willing to pay for, the former would have my cash, and more than they would likely expect from one single user. That's because I think that cedin…

OK, let's play this game: You are now fully in control of Mozilla - projects, finances, it's all on you. How would you turn Firefox into a browser with significant market share in an increasingly mobile world where two competitors control default applications and most users newer change any defaults?

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#237

Post by mardifoufs »

gfodor wrote: post #204
jacquesm wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it is a losing strategy because this is a rearguard action. There are only losing strategies, nothing will turn Mozilla around to be some kind of powerhouse besides what it already is. And that's fine . It doesn't need to be the next singing, dancing platform with bells and whistles. It's a tool. It should do one thing and do that one thing well. FireFox is not a failing product, it is the only product they have…

Your two claims (Mozilla can't do anything other than Firefox, Firefox is not failing) are easy to provide counter-evidence to. You're making strong statements here as fact that are not only subjective but which run against evidence.

I agree that the browser side is not doing very well in terms of market share, but I don't see any evidence that Mozilla has been or is able to make a successful product that isn't firefox. Sure, they made quite a few different things but they have not show any ability to really get them any traction. They wouldn't really be in this situation if they did.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#238

Post by staktrace »

shock wrote: post #148
soundnote wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To do that now would be financial suicide. They have several new services, if they manage to get revenue from them they could survive cutting Google. But not before.

I present to you the Debian Foundation as a counter example. I posit they are surviving just fine without a contract with Google.

The Debian Foundation also doesn't have to compete against Google on a product that costs millions of dollars to build and maintain, and that Google throws billions at in marketing.

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#239

Post by dblohm7 »

takluyver wrote: post #179
burkaman wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would pay $100 or $5/month or something for Firefox. I don't really understand why they don't have a pay-if-you-want model. I donate to nonprofit news organizations I read even though I can get their news for free, and I pay for a couple Android apps I want to support even though the "premium" versions don't have any meaningful extra features. I'm sure they wouldn't get enough revenue to replace Google's support, b…

They do take donations: https://donate.mozilla.org/

While donating to Mozilla Foundation is a great cause [1], none of those funds go to funding Mozilla Corporation, and thus Firefox.

If you want your funds to go toward MoCo (and thus Firefox development), your best bet is to subscribe to Mozilla VPN or Pocket Premium.

[1] https://foundation.mozilla.org/en/initiatives/

Re: Mozilla lays off 250 employees while it refocuses on commercial products

#240

Post by input_sh »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #177
Vinnl wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Work on the bloody browser, forget about the rest. But they did that, and now Firefox market share is almost negligible because it wasn't the default browser on mobile OS's. For example, I'm sceptical about the potential reach of XR, but if it grows big, it is vital that Firefox plays a bigger role there, instead of everybody being reliant on apps and Chrome once again.

> But they did that, and now Firefox market share is almost negligible because it wasn't the default browser on mobile OS's. Firefox has never been a default browser on any OS, mobile or otherwise, and I don't see how that could ever change short of Firefox developing their own OS. Which is in fact something they tried a while back for mobile, and it didn't go so well.

> Which is in fact something they tried a while back for mobile, and it didn't go so well.

A fork of it (KaiOS) is currently more popular than iOS in India.

I'd argue that their PWA-focused OS was just a few years ahead of its time.

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