Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Clean Network – United States Department of State

state.gov

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

361–370 of 412 posts

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#361

Post by creato »

SenoraRaton wrote: post #347
glenstein wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's possible to criticize the national security state in the U.S. while not losing sight of the fact that China is run by an authoritarian government guilty of abuses at a completely different order of magnitude. That difference is important, because a lot of people even in this thread seem to completely lose sight of it.

... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... I would argue that the United States is worse than China. China isn't, nor has it really ever been imperialist. The United States is an imperialist country that has wreaked havoc across the globe, and is responsible for the death of millions of innocent civilians.

Your link includes post-WWII "regime change". Would you rather live in Western Europe or Eastern Europe? North Korea or South Korea?

The point is, the United States has done a lot of things across the world. Some of it may be havoc. It may be responsible for many deaths. It's also responsible for many improved lives.

China today is involved in territorial disputes involving military mobilization with more than half of its neighbors. In a few decades, we're probably going to look back on Xinjiang as an event comparable to the holocaust.

Boiling this down to "USA = imperialist = bad" and "China = not imperialist = OK" is silly.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#362

Post by xg15 »

creato wrote: post #361
SenoraRaton wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_r... I would argue that the United States is worse than China. China isn't, nor has it really ever been imperialist. The United States is an imperialist country that has wreaked havoc across the globe, and is responsible for the death of millions of innocent civilians.

Your link includes post-WWII "regime change". Would you rather live in Western Europe or Eastern Europe? North Korea or South Korea? The point is, the United States has done a lot of things across the world. Some of it may be havoc. It may be responsible for many deaths. It's also responsible for many improved lives. China today is involved in territorial disputes involving military mobilization with more than half o…

> Some of it may be havoc. It may be responsible for many deaths. It's also responsible for many improved lives.

If we're making those kinds of tradeoff, China is just as responsible for many improved lives, just look at the Road and Belt initiative, projects against poverty and involvement in Africa.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#364

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #108
ISL wrote: post #80

I have the same feeling about this as I did the announcement of the "Department of Homeland Security". The name sounded Soviet in origin, with only the exchange of "Homeland" in place of "Motherland". It reminded me of things my family had taught me didn't happen in the United States. "We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network." is a sentence straight out of an authoritarian playbo…

Yes. It is ridiculous how closely the language sounds to that of a dictatorial regime. The language is just so.. cringy. When I first read, I genuinely could not believe it was not onion or some weird caricature.

Thanks for posting this, I was looking for this comment. I had to check the URL multiple times because the more I read the more I was convinced it was a parody site. Even the "Clean" typeface evoking the Mr. Clean brand, I thought surely this must be a joke.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#365

Post by knolax »

wyuenho wrote: post #352
knolax wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> leaving out all those things that made the vast amount of knowledge possible No. This is the conceit of the humanities to attribute the past few centuries of industrial and scientific progress to their work. The Soviets, the Nazis, and the Japanese Empire all managed to progress useful knowledge while believing in completely different ideologies. Your John Lockes and Thomas Paines made no real contribution to the d…

I strongly advise you to look into the Needham Question. China could have industrialized a millennium ago, and yet it hadn't until around 50 years ago. Insulating one from knowledge can have tremendous effect on growth for centuries. All Soviets, Nazi and Japanese progress are built on ideas and attitudes first found in Reformation Europe.

> All Soviets, Nazi and Japanese progress are built on ideas and attitudes first found in Reformation Europe.

And yet they still managed to adopt all the useful ideas they needed despite heavy political censorship.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#366

Post by wyuenho »

knolax wrote: post #365
wyuenho wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I strongly advise you to look into the Needham Question. China could have industrialized a millennium ago, and yet it hadn't until around 50 years ago. Insulating one from knowledge can have tremendous effect on growth for centuries. All Soviets, Nazi and Japanese progress are built on ideas and attitudes first found in Reformation Europe.

> All Soviets, Nazi and Japanese progress are built on ideas and attitudes first found in Reformation Europe. And yet they still managed to adopt all the useful ideas they needed despite heavy political censorship.

They also all lost.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#368

Post by jyrkesh »

ryukafalz wrote: post #294
helldritch wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe it's BeyondCorp: https://cloud.google.com/beyondcorp

BeyondCorp is their term for secure communication between users and services, BeyondProd is for communication between services: https://cloud.google.com/security/beyondprod

Thanks for the link, didn't know that existed.

Reminds me of when Google security engineers...ahem...reacted...to the Snowden leak that the NSA was spying on internally decrypted traffic. [1]

It's insane to me that the US spied on an American company's internal traffic, got busted, and the only viable response was "well, I guess we have to make HTTPS mandatory in the protocol now".

Not that it was the wrong response. Just that it wasn't even on the table to say "hey, NSA, wtf..."

Unless you see the NSA as some sort of weird, legally protected black hat blue team.

[1] https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2013/11/googl...

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#369

Post by stubish »

chrisco255 wrote: post #332
smithza wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just read in the news this morning that the intelligence community acknowledges China has a steak in Biden being put in the Oval Office and Russia has a steak in Trump staying put. Interesting that Russia's name was not in this piece anywhere...

Why would it be? There are no plausible 5G competitors coming from Russia. There are very few (if any) electronics manufactured in Russia and imported to the U.S.

Any resources the US spends in conflict with China are resources it can't spend in conflict with Russia. The US is relatively weaker, Russia is relatively stronger. 5G is just one small piece of the puzzle.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#370

Post by rsa25519 »

xg15 wrote: post #360

Aside: > To prevent U.S. citizens’ most sensitive personal information and our businesses’ most valuable intellectual property, including COVID-19 vaccine research, from being stored and processed on cloud-based systems accessible to our foreign adversaries I find it an interesting choice to specifically use COVID-19 vaccine research as an example of intellectual property. What about all the talk that COVID-19 vaccin…

Steelmanning the web page, maybe they meant protecting the research against tampering?

Regardless, I think the site mentioning COVID-19 is needlessly inflammatory.

Post reply on HN