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The Clean Network – United States Department of State

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Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#351

Post by knolax »

wyuenho wrote: post #329
chillacy wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was their loss. If China does something, does the US have to follow? As it is, this just makes it seem like China was right this whole time and the US ideals of an open internet were a failure.

They view it as a success and have double down on it, while the rest of the world continued to feed them knowledge free minds across continents spent centuries to accumulate. In short, they only took the useful bits to strengthen the government's grip on the population while leaving out all those things that made the vast amount of knowledge possible. They are getting all human knowledge for free, while it it not the…

> leaving out all those things that made the vast amount of knowledge possible

No. This is the conceit of the humanities to attribute the past few centuries of industrial and scientific progress to their work. The Soviets, the Nazis, and the Japanese Empire all managed to progress useful knowledge while believing in completely different ideologies. Your John Lockes and Thomas Paines made no real contribution to the discovery of Penicillin or the Transistor. The idea that censoring ideology will stunt technological growth is a fantasy believed in only by ideologues.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#352

Post by wyuenho »

knolax wrote: post #351
wyuenho wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They view it as a success and have double down on it, while the rest of the world continued to feed them knowledge free minds across continents spent centuries to accumulate. In short, they only took the useful bits to strengthen the government's grip on the population while leaving out all those things that made the vast amount of knowledge possible. They are getting all human knowledge for free, while it it not the…

> leaving out all those things that made the vast amount of knowledge possible No. This is the conceit of the humanities to attribute the past few centuries of industrial and scientific progress to their work. The Soviets, the Nazis, and the Japanese Empire all managed to progress useful knowledge while believing in completely different ideologies. Your John Lockes and Thomas Paines made no real contribution to the d…

I strongly advise you to look into the Needham Question. China could have industrialized a millennium ago, and yet it hadn't until around 50 years ago. Insulating one from knowledge can have tremendous effect on growth for centuries. All Soviets, Nazi and Japanese progress are built on ideas and attitudes first found in Reformation Europe.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#353

Post by jppope »

imglorp wrote: post #230
ISL wrote: post #80

I have the same feeling about this as I did the announcement of the "Department of Homeland Security". The name sounded Soviet in origin, with only the exchange of "Homeland" in place of "Motherland". It reminded me of things my family had taught me didn't happen in the United States. "We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network." is a sentence straight out of an authoritarian playbo…

"Build the Firewall" and get China to pay for it?

+100 points for this quip.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#354

Post by wyuenho »

Fazel94 wrote: post #222
wyuenho wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has been known for decades, companies knew, and the way they dealt with this was to only give China obsolete tech or tech about to get out of date, so they didn't care. That's no longer the case as China is catching up fast and really threatening the competitive advantage of truly innovative companies all around the world.

Recently, Like in the case of 5G. They are the innovators and others are the catchers. I think labeling every western company as truly innovator and the Chinese ones as copy-cats is the modus operandi in the US but that is clinging to the old stereotypes in fast changing times. They built up massive expertise and are putting it into use to gain more edge on other countries including the US.

Huawei's contribution to 5G is probably overstated. Looking at the 3GPP rapporteur roster, a lot of work is done by Qualcomm engineers with Chinese names. This is why immigration is so important to the US in order to attract the best talents to contribute to US IP.

https://www.lightreading.com/5g/huaweis-patents-wont-save-it...

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#355

Post by luckylion »

glenstein wrote: post #322
d0gbread wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you may have pulled the wrong point. This thread seems more about how the US prides itself on being a role model when we are often hypocritical. If we're good to slide on our principles and ideals "as long as we can tell ourselves apart from China" that's a pretty sad state.

This branch of comments goes back to a commenter who made the accurate point that the US is closer to a liberal democracy than China. >If we're good to slide on our principles and ideals "as long as we can tell ourselves apart from China" that's a pretty sad state. This is conflating a differentiation for a justification . We can form coherent thoughts about the relative scale of abuses committed by different powers…

> This branch of comments goes back to a commenter who made the accurate point that the US is closer to a liberal democracy than China.

No. The comment said the US is a liberal democracy. Not "closer", IS.

It's like "hey, this number is 100!" - "no, that number is 13" - "but 13 is closer to 100 than 2".

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#356

Post by [deleted] »

komali2 wrote: post #69
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We now have our own "Great Firewall" I don’t see anything about content filtering. Just transport integrity. The closest we come to that is the prohibition on apps, but that’s still an ocean away from censoring text messages mentioning the Tiananmen massacre.

Or arresting a Hong Kong democratic leader for "uttering seditious words" (exact phrasing of the CCP today).

[deleted]

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#357

Post by tkel »

komali2 wrote: post #69
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We now have our own "Great Firewall" I don’t see anything about content filtering. Just transport integrity. The closest we come to that is the prohibition on apps, but that’s still an ocean away from censoring text messages mentioning the Tiananmen massacre.

Or arresting a Hong Kong democratic leader for "uttering seditious words" (exact phrasing of the CCP today).

fyi in the "land of the free", people being mean to government agents are cited for sedition

https://www.voiceofsandiego.org/topics/public-safety/sdpd-is...

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#358

Post by luckylion »

bassman9000 wrote: post #258
luckylion wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RE the Bloomberg article, be aware that Vodafone rejected Bloomberg's reporting [1]: "The 'backdoor' that Bloomberg refers to is Telnet, which is a protocol that is commonly used by many vendors in the industry for performing diagnostic functions. It would not have been accessible from the internet. "Bloomberg is incorrect in saying that this 'could have given Huawei unauthorised access to the carrier's fixed-line ne…

And the Politico one about the German intelligence findings? Or the fact that Huawei is a de-facto public company, with massive subsidies by the CDB? https://www.rfi.fr/en/contenu/20190530-huawei-key-beneficiar... Huawei inked a $10 billion credit line with the China Development Bank (CDB) in 2004 to provide low-cost financing to customers buying its telecom gear. It was tripled to $30 billion in 2009. https://www.ws…

I don't know why you tell me that, I'm not arguing anything, I'm just pointing out that Bloomberg is a bad source because they are making false claims and do not correct them.

> Thus, all major Chinese corporations are a extension of the CCP.

I believe that to be true. I also believe that to be true for all corporations in all nations. They're independent from the state until it matters.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#359

Post by twat »

ww520 wrote: post #188
kayson wrote: post #16

Has anyone published the evidence of Huawei being an "arm of the PRC surveillance state"? I've seen a lot of claims and a lot of out-of-court-settled lawsuits, but nothing really showing that they're using their devices or software infrastructure for surveillance.

China’s National Intelligence Law from 2017 requires companies, organizations and citizens to “support, assist and cooperate with the state intelligence work.” Yes, Huawei is an arm of the PRC surveillance state.

Any evidence of the enforcement of that law?

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#360

Post by xg15 »

Aside:

> To prevent U.S. citizens’ most sensitive personal information and our businesses’ most valuable intellectual property, including COVID-19 vaccine research, from being stored and processed on cloud-based systems accessible to our foreign adversaries

I find it an interesting choice to specifically use COVID-19 vaccine research as an example of intellectual property.

What about all the talk that COVID-19 vaccines should be developed in global collaboration and that vaccines should become available to everyone worldwide?

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