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The Clean Network – United States Department of State

state.gov

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Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#311

Post by 8note »

dannyw wrote: post #145
ISL wrote: post #80

I have the same feeling about this as I did the announcement of the "Department of Homeland Security". The name sounded Soviet in origin, with only the exchange of "Homeland" in place of "Motherland". It reminded me of things my family had taught me didn't happen in the United States. "We call on all freedom-loving nations and companies to join the Clean Network." is a sentence straight out of an authoritarian playbo…

The Chinese has shown no interest in co-operating with the world. They are an enemy. What’s wrong with keeping them out of our internet when they have their own? To put it another way; this is like allowing your enemy to design and manfacture your military jets.

They're cooperating with many countries in the world. What is this supposed to mean?

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#312

Post by tikwidd »

slater wrote: post #17
cmckn wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hopefully, none of this will be implemented and we can all forget Mike Pompeo exists in 6 months.

84 more days till election... fingers & toes crossed

The DNC has criticised Trump for not being tough enough on China. I don't think anything is going to change soon.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#313

Post by 8note »

glenstein wrote: post #280
remus wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd bet a lot of money that the NSA didn't just turn off their servers and sit their twiddling their thumbs after the Snowden leaks.

That's an unfair caricature. The steelman version of that argument is that China has likely amassed a more robust global surveillance database (to the extent that that's even the right word to use) than the U.S.

I imagine they don't even need to. All they need to do is gain access to the American databases

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#314

Post by thephyber »

novok wrote: post #128
waihtis wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Furthermore, State is a decade or more behind the game. It is my impression that modern companies that care about security assume that all networks are compromised and act accordingly. Unfortunately far from true. There's a small percentage who have the resource to run this kind of ops. Don't look at FAANG on how security is in companies, they're outliers by far.

FANMAG is also the infrastructure that most of these companies are running on, so in a way, they are delivering it bit by bit to most companies. Especially as companies move from doing things like 'running their own exchange server' to 'buying a microsoft 365 subscription'. Chromebook + google apps is what most companies need, and really good security for the most part.

While I don't disagree with your statement, it's important to remember that cybersecurity is a "weakest link" issue. If 90% of your infrastructure/tooling is provided by FANMAG companies, you are still pretty weak from the remaining 10% -- unless your company has higher security standards than FANMAG, which is not typical.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#315

Post by 8note »

coliveira wrote: post #187
annoyingnoob wrote: post #178

Can we get a clean government? Free from hyper-partisan politics, where there can be more than two sides and folks on other sides are still on the same overall team and not the enemy? Together we stand, divided we fall.

The whole goal of trumpism is to create slaves to the ideology of white and western supremacy. It has so clear racial undertones that it's not a surprise they want to attack China: they see it more as a racial target, poorly disguised with "homeland security" excuses.

I don't think it's racial, more geopolitical.

The US wants to maintain dominance over Asia. Can't do that with China, the usual Asian power, getting stronger

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#317

Post by 8note »

glenstein wrote: post #270
csb6 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US is not a democracy for the vast majority of Americans. It is an oligarchy posing as a democracy.

It's possible to criticize the national security state in the U.S. while not losing sight of the fact that China is run by an authoritarian government guilty of abuses at a completely different order of magnitude. That difference is important, because a lot of people even in this thread seem to completely lose sight of it.

I don't think that's to say you should trust a US network because you can't trust a Chinese network though

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#318

Post by thephyber »

sukilot wrote: post #215
pathseeker wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is my impression that modern companies that care about security assume that all networks are compromised and act accordingly. See https://cloud.google.com/beyondcorp as an example. No, you assume the network can be compromised like any other device in the system. You still defend the network and add in layers of access control. Employees of Google still use VPNs to connect into sensitive networks. With the preva…

BeyondCorp is essentially a VPN but a different structure. That puts security on all the machine nodes. It's more secure than a VPN because it doesn't have a gooey center being a single entry point.

Calling it a VPN muddies the point you are tying to make.

People think of a VPN as a secure perimeter (like a thick ship's hull), but BeyondCorp is layered security (like the many smaller compartments within a ship that can be isolated in case of a hull breach).

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#319

Post by roca »

csb6 wrote: post #238
booleandilemma wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The US is not a democracy for the vast majority of Americans. It is an oligarchy posing as a democracy.

Call it what you like, but the reality is that the USA is so much more free at every level of society than China under the CCP, and that's even ignoring the horrors of Xinjiang and Tibet.

Even in this much-derided "Clean Network" document there is not a word about the sort of content-based censorship that is ubiquitous in China.

Re: The Clean Network – United States Department of State

#320

Post by socraticmethod »

bobajeff wrote: post #15
consultutah wrote: post #3

It looks like we are breaking the internet up along the lines of political boundaries. The US will have one internet, the EU another, China yet another... Hopefully the pendulum will swing back in the other direction soon...

>Hopefully the pendulum will swing back in the other direction soon Narrator: "It didn't."

>Narrator: "It didn't."

Yuck. I read HN to avoid these kind of low effort canned responses.

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