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Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

reuters.com

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Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#281

Post by spacehunt »

chloerei wrote: post #84

As a Chinese, I think it is reasonable to arrest a leader who violated the national security law. Think of a US media tycoon who went to China to meet with the Secretary of State, used the media to incite riots in his country, appeared on the streets of protest, and publicly called on China to intervene in the United States. What are the consequences of this? Please read more media from a different standpoint and thi…

> a leader who violated the national security law

As a Hong Konger, I'm always amused by how much influence the CCP thinks Jimmy Lai / Apple Daily / Next Media wields.

Inciting riots? Really? Can you point to a single Apple Daily article that demonstrates this?

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#282

Post by toxik »

eie7eu3hrruur wrote: post #273
tomp wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's simply social authoritarianism rather than government authoritarianism While I agree that "social authoritarianism" is pretty shitty, I'll take it over "government authoritarianism" any day of the week (mind you, we're commenting on a story about someone being jailed for speech, not just fired).

Sometimes that social mob burns your business down and then calls you short-sighted or racist for not being supportive anymore. There's a difference sure but it's not quite as night and day as fired vs. dead.

The CCP will put you in an "education camp" if you don't agree with their ideas. Survivors from these camps are present all over the world, it is no secret - neither their existence, or how they work.

As an old Chinese man said, "love, ideals, loyalty, none of that matters anymore once your food is taken away." You _will_ report your family as traitors if that's what is standing between you and starvation.

We must never excuse the horrors going on in China, and we must always recognize that civil unrest is always the symptom, never the disease.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#283

Post by Kbelicius »

tomp wrote: post #265
chvid wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the dystopian logic here? That the us led world order eventually will collapse due to global inequality is pretty standard thought in communist thinking. And of course China sees itself as a more just society with basis in the worker rather than the capital holder.

Where did you read this propaganda that you're parroting here? In the past few decades, the global wealth inequality has decreased significantly (under the leadership of the "US empire" nevertheless). China isn't communist, it's just a dictatorship. Very capitalist. Huge inequality as well, growing faster than the West and approaching US wealth inequality. I can't see how there would be less inequality under the rule…

> In the past few decades, the global wealth inequality has decreased significantly

I'm guessing that you are thinking about the number of people that have risen from poverty (lead by China, not US) because I could not find one source that is talking about decreased global wealth inequality. In fact, every single source that I could find on a short notice is talking about the rise of global wealth inequality in the last few decades.

Can you share your sources.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#284

Post by ohthehugemanate »

throwaway-semi wrote: post #36

Why are we empowering this regime? Shouldn't we force companies like Apple to make a statement of why they manufacture their goods in China? Apple is happy make a statement about BLM - it is cheap, doesn't cost them anything. But when it comes to things that actually harm profits and challenge shareholder responsibilities, they stay mum. We need to force Apple (and other giant corporations) to speak up about atrociti…

Some big companies DO try to be intentional about moral issues like this. The HN post earlier today had a question for Microsoft President Brad Smith about China.

> "While China is also an important market for Microsoft, Smith explained that they had to step back from setting up a data center there because of the legal and security issues that it could create for their Chinese users. “You need to know what principles you hold fundamental”, he added."

Also worth noting that it is not always a simple black and white. Yes there are clear examples, but lots of Chinese companies do honest business and don't want to hurt anyone. And what is the dividing line for a potential boycott? Do companies all over the world have to meet US labor standards before you'll buy from them? Do their host governments need to meet a particular definition of liberalism? Can you come up with concrete definitions that don't exclude the US?

You may have all sorts of answers to those questions, and I hope you do your part in voting with your wallet along those moral lines. I point them out only to illustrate that they aren't EASY questions, and certainly aren't easy in the context of big movements like trade deals, when hundreds or thousands of local jobs are at stake.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#285

Post by Gravityloss »

chloerei wrote: post #84

As a Chinese, I think it is reasonable to arrest a leader who violated the national security law. Think of a US media tycoon who went to China to meet with the Secretary of State, used the media to incite riots in his country, appeared on the streets of protest, and publicly called on China to intervene in the United States. What are the consequences of this? Please read more media from a different standpoint and thi…

What did the people in Hong Kong want?

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#286

Post by tedhuang »

dqpb wrote: post #185
tedhuang wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sure you never been to XinJiang

What would I see if I was there?

if you can afford a ticket go see it yourself. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oKvulTU8oU&bpctr=1597061919

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#287

Post by Nasrudith »

88840-8855 wrote: post #122

This is going to be very unpopular. History repeats itself. Just 30 years ago the Soviet Union was dissolved. If you study this dissolution process, you see that demonstrations and the ambition to sovereignty was nothing new in the Soviet Union and the Warsaw Pact, but in comparison to the 50s, 60s and 70s, Gorbachev did not use military force to prevent countries from splitting off. If China lets HK go independent,…

The economic collapse seems like a misattributiation of the USSR's collapse's cause. The collapse was because the economy turned out to be a lie fundamentally.

Now China has certainly been cooking the hell out of the books but given the other sides of transactions with the outside world we have an idea of the of the real as quite large.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#288

Post by glandium »

labster wrote: post #17
aww_dang wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've claimed authority to extradite anyone (including non-Chinese citizens) under this new law.

And invoked that authority: China has pressed charges against an American citizen who lives in America for conduct that took place in the United States. https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/01/china/hong-kong-activists-arr... R.I.P Westphalian sovereignty

"an American citizen" who has not renounced his Hong Kong citizenship, so as far as that news is concerned, the fact that he also has American citizenship is irrelevant.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#289

Post by tedhuang »

pirocks wrote: post #166
tedhuang wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if what you wish to accomplish has to rely on misinformation then China is the wrong place for you. People will come after you, you may end up need CPC's protection

Notice how you've changed the OPs concern about free speech to a concern about "misinformation".

'pro-democracy' people are strongly associated with misinformation in China. That's why they have very few support and never accomplish anything all these years.

Re: Hong Kong media tycoon Jimmy Lai arrested under national security law

#290

Post by Nasrudith »

ardy42 wrote: post #154
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> BLM is easy to speak about and acts as good marketing for them. Considering a good chunk of the US population (15-30%?) is vocally "anti-BLM" - it is somewhat ballsy for a high-profile company to wear pro-BLM in their corporate messaging - I'm sure we've all seen people on Facebook vow to boycott Apple or other "liberal" organizations.

> Considering a good chunk of the US population (15-30%?) is vocally "anti-BLM" - it is somewhat ballsy for a high-profile company to wear pro-BLM in their corporate messaging - I'm sure we've all seen people on Facebook vow to boycott Apple or other "liberal" organizations. That doesn't really matter. Voluntary boycotts have little effect, and there probably no enough people who are so "anti-BLM" that they'd actuall…

The real reason they don't matter is because they already largely weren't a significant portion of their demographics. Stating my intention to boycott some very expensive high fashion brand when I haven't bought any article of clothing for a thousand dollars doesn't mean anything.
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