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Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

theguardian.com

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Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#51

Post by goatinaboat »

brink wrote: post #4

I get that. I can give up seeing the Louvre this summer. But my loved one is in another country and the last thing my heart needs is more lock-downs. We need to consider what closed borders are doing to bi-national married / unmarried couples. They've been a largely ignored demographic during this pandemic and collateral damage due to the broad and sweeping policies that have taken place on the borders.

But my loved one is in another country and the last thing my heart needs is more lock-downs. We need to consider what closed borders are doing to bi-national married / unmarried couples. They've been a largely ignored demographic during this pandemic and collateral damage due to the broad and sweeping policies that have taken place on the borders.

Depression, stress and loneliness all have health consequences too. Whether that is separation from loved ones, or seeing the business that fed your family evaporating before your eyes. In the rush to protect ourselves from a disease with a 99.97% survival rate, that only tips people over the edge who had pre-existing morbid conditions, that most people won't even know that they've had, we have sown the seeds of something that will kill many more people.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#52

Post by pen2l »

arp242 wrote: post #50
speedgoose wrote: post #45

I'm right now in a Norwegian plane to come back from France to Norway. There is a quarantine since midnight, which is a good thing. There is a reason that France and Norway do not have the same numbers, French people are pretty bad at taking the covid19 measures seriously. I'm not thinking about the government but the population in general. It's a bit frustrating because it's not very difficult to be careful. I have…

> By the way, some asshole passengers are coughing in the plane. Can't really stop people from coughing, no? It's pretty involuntary.

I've got it bad in a similar situation: I work in a hospital ... and I'm finding myself coughing a lot.

But it's not the virus, have been tested negative twice. It's allergies and other things.

When generally outside, it's annoying to have to suppress coughing lest I scare others.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#53

Post by arp242 »

zvrba wrote: post #33

Unfortunately, it's only advisory. The government should set up a 5000 NOK (at least) "traveling fine" per person, and obligatory quarantine ("home" confinement in state-provided guarded quarters) upon entry. THAT would discourage people from traveling. So those who MUST travel can plan ahead and know what they're up to, the rest will give up. AFAIK, insurance companies announced that they'll refuse travel-insurance…

So rich people will shrug it off and travel anyway? What about the poor people who MUST travel? What if a family member is dying in another country?

Just make a case-by-case judgement. Holidays are clearly stupid, but there are plenty of much more valid reasons to travel.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#54

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

anoncake wrote: post #43
zvrba wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is extremely egoistic post. You, a single individual, can infect tens of persons, without even knowing it, who spread the disease further, and of whom someone will die. Is satisfying your heartache worth starting a chain of deaths? The more people feel like they're a special-case snowflakes who should be exempt from travelling restrictions, the longer this situation is going to last.

There's so much bullshit in this post. Even without any precautions, the average person would not nearly infect "tens of person". To actually cause the death of one, they would have to infect on average ~200 people. And the egoists here are those that want everyone to suffer just so they can avoid a miniscule chance of death. And the faster the virus spreads, the faster we are done with this bullshit.

Amen. The moral superiority is insane. Berate and strip them of any ounce of humanity, anyone who dares to even suggest that indefinite draconian measures are unsustainable or possibly ineffective.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#55

Post by stordoff »

bzb4 wrote: post #6
brink wrote: post #4

I get that. I can give up seeing the Louvre this summer. But my loved one is in another country and the last thing my heart needs is more lock-downs. We need to consider what closed borders are doing to bi-national married / unmarried couples. They've been a largely ignored demographic during this pandemic and collateral damage due to the broad and sweeping policies that have taken place on the borders.

Meteoric rise in xenophobia? What are you talking about?

> The Metropolitan Police recorded 166 verbal, online and physical attacks in February and March where the officer reported the ethnic appearance of the victim as "Oriental", up from 66 during the same period last year [...] According to the Met, hate crimes jumped from 20 in January to 65 in February and 101 in March.

https://www.ft.com/content/52e7062b-0cb2-448a-b944-05b3025d4...

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#56

Post by speedgoose »

arp242 wrote: post #50
speedgoose wrote: post #45

I'm right now in a Norwegian plane to come back from France to Norway. There is a quarantine since midnight, which is a good thing. There is a reason that France and Norway do not have the same numbers, French people are pretty bad at taking the covid19 measures seriously. I'm not thinking about the government but the population in general. It's a bit frustrating because it's not very difficult to be careful. I have…

> By the way, some asshole passengers are coughing in the plane. Can't really stop people from coughing, no? It's pretty involuntary.

True. But you can cough in your arm.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#57

Post by odiroot »

brink wrote: post #4

I get that. I can give up seeing the Louvre this summer. But my loved one is in another country and the last thing my heart needs is more lock-downs. We need to consider what closed borders are doing to bi-national married / unmarried couples. They've been a largely ignored demographic during this pandemic and collateral damage due to the broad and sweeping policies that have taken place on the borders.

Welcome to the club. My partner is so far away, there's not even a direct flight connecting us (nor our countries in general) . I have to count on 3 countries agreeing on opening a path. Currently it's not even physically possible to take such flight (for any reasons).

This all makes me sad.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#58

Post by doublesCs »

speedgoose wrote: post #45

I'm right now in a Norwegian plane to come back from France to Norway. There is a quarantine since midnight, which is a good thing. There is a reason that France and Norway do not have the same numbers, French people are pretty bad at taking the covid19 measures seriously. I'm not thinking about the government but the population in general. It's a bit frustrating because it's not very difficult to be careful. I have…

> Travelling abroad this summer is considered by many as stupid and careless. I bought the trip when the numbers were good and when the governments were allowing tourism.

So wait. You bought your tickets when "the numbers were good". So you made a bet. Why do you have a problem with other people making a bet NOW? They're just accepting different odds. Everyone has to judge their own risk/rewards.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#59

Post by devdas »

arp242 wrote: post #53
zvrba wrote: post #33

Unfortunately, it's only advisory. The government should set up a 5000 NOK (at least) "traveling fine" per person, and obligatory quarantine ("home" confinement in state-provided guarded quarters) upon entry. THAT would discourage people from traveling. So those who MUST travel can plan ahead and know what they're up to, the rest will give up. AFAIK, insurance companies announced that they'll refuse travel-insurance…

So rich people will shrug it off and travel anyway? What about the poor people who MUST travel? What if a family member is dying in another country? Just make a case-by-case judgement. Holidays are clearly stupid, but there are plenty of much more valid reasons to travel.

If a family member is dying, skip the event.

Re: Norway advises citizens to avoid all travel abroad

#60

Post by gspr »

zvrba wrote: post #33

Unfortunately, it's only advisory. The government should set up a 5000 NOK (at least) "traveling fine" per person, and obligatory quarantine ("home" confinement in state-provided guarded quarters) upon entry. THAT would discourage people from traveling. So those who MUST travel can plan ahead and know what they're up to, the rest will give up. AFAIK, insurance companies announced that they'll refuse travel-insurance…

> Unfortunately, it's only advisory.

True, but in additition to this advice, there is the Department of Foreign Affairs official travel advisory (the kind that every country issues, like "due to a civil war, we advice against all non-essential travel to country X") [1]. That advice is currently to avoid all non-essential travel to all countries, except the whitelist that is updated every two weeks. As of right now, that whitelist consists of the countries or subnational regions labeled as green on this map [2]. This is not just splitting hairs on my part: by violating the latter type of travel advisory, your health insurance is likely void, you are to expect no assistance, and you are subject to a mandatory quarantine on return, for which there is no paid sick leave.

> The government should set up a 5000 NOK (at least) "traveling fine" per person, and obligatory quarantine

For all the non-exempt countries, i.e. for most of the world, there is obligatory quarantine on your own dime. Unless your job allows you to work from home, that's a substantially larger financial penalty than the fine you suggest.

> ("home" confinement in state-provided guarded quarters)

Oh come on, this isn't China.

> The national health institute here opines that closing the borders has questionable or no effect, even though most of the cases in the 1st wave got imported from ski-resorts in Italy.

You seem to be aware of the whitelist of countries (even though you misrepresent the situation at the beginning of your comment). Then you are probably also aware that the idea is that the whitelisted countries have a low enough case rate that the authorities believe that closing the border to those countries has little effect. This may or may not be correct, but you seem to try to view the situation as negatively as you can.

[1] https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/foreign-affairs/reisein...

[2] https://www.fhi.no/nettpub/coronavirus/fakta/reiserad-knytte...

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