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Oatly: The New Coke?

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Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#201

Post by rattray »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #141
twanvl wrote: post #65

> The evidence for the harms of canola oil is still in its early days, but continues to grow. Research has linked it to: Memory impairment [1], Alzheimer’s risk [1], Cardiovascular disease [2], [5], [6], [8], Diabetes [2], Increased all-cause mortality [2], [6], [7], Metabolic syndrome [3], Decreased brain function [4], and Oxidative stress [5], [7]. Most of these references talk about how there is no clear benefit o…

For completeness, I checked them all and the score is: * Rat * Rat * actually about cooking _in_ canola oil * about switching _any_ vegetable oil to _less_ olive oil * Rat * actually about a different oil with quite different content of the active acid being trialled * Rat * Rat (Oh, and the article is written by a SEO marketer)

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24090817 points out that rats, rather uniquely, cannot process erucic acid (part of canola oil) and the rat studies likely do not apply to most other mammals (including humans).

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#202

Post by adverbly »

I can't help but feel pity for the author here. They've correctly been able to see through all of these tactics and psychological hacks employed by the marketing industry, but then they've gone on and tried to better themselves and made a big ol fool of themselves trying to do it.

The fact of the matter is that proving things and making a strong point in an argument is HARD. To really convince people about complex issues, you can't just make claims and then cite references. Complex issues will often have aspects where both sides can make well referenced scientific arguments in favour of their side. Hell, if tobacco could do it, why the author expects to do so much better when they try the exact same thing a few paragraphs later is beyond me.

I certainly don't have a great solution either here, but I can say that the things in my life which have nudged my thinking have not been better someone who cited a better reference, or who argues harder for one side. It's been someone who explains as much as possible about the underlying mechanisms involved, and why something is BOTH good and bad which is almost always the case. This usually takes around an hour or 2 of presentation, and is presented by someone who has done years of research in a field. That's what did it for me and sugar at least: https://robertlustig.com/sugar-the-bitter-truth/

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#204

Post by evgen »

bitexploder wrote: post #187
lambdaba wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the fats in those oils are very susceptible to oxidation and have low smoke points, they are never safe as cooking oils for this reason. For cooking the best options outside of animal fats are olive oil and coconut oil, but of course olive oil is most versatile and better tasting imo.

Give avocado oil a shot. Great smoke point, no real flavor. I am allergic to avacado somehow and the oil doesn’t bother me.

Most allergies are to a protein in the thing you are allergic to, and refined oils that have a high smoke point usually have all of that removed (or it would cause the oil to smoke.) I have a peanut allergy but can eat anything fried by a cheap restaurant in Sysco peanut oil while I have had a reaction to something done by a three star restaurant because they used unrefined oil (looking at you Manressa...)

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#205

Post by lambdaba »

Jolter wrote: post #156
lambdaba wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the fats in those oils are very susceptible to oxidation and have low smoke points, they are never safe as cooking oils for this reason. For cooking the best options outside of animal fats are olive oil and coconut oil, but of course olive oil is most versatile and better tasting imo.

I don’t know where you’re getting this from. I use canola oil when pan-frying food and it stands heat better then most olive oils. The cold-pressed variety tastes like shit though (well, actually it tastes like canola which has a kale-like flavor that I find unappealing). The refined canola oil is perfect for frying.

Quoting this study https://actascientific.com/ASNH/pdf/ASNH-02-0083.pdf (note: I get an error opening the PDF)

> Extra virgin olive oil (EVOO) yielded low levels of polar compounds and oxidative by-products, in contrast to the high levels of by-products generated for oils such as canola oil.

But I formed my position from many other points, the degradation in public health in the USA has tracked perfectly with the switch from animal fats to seed oils for cooking (and other uses but frying is the worse offender)

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#206

Post by [deleted] »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #141
twanvl wrote: post #65

> The evidence for the harms of canola oil is still in its early days, but continues to grow. Research has linked it to: Memory impairment [1], Alzheimer’s risk [1], Cardiovascular disease [2], [5], [6], [8], Diabetes [2], Increased all-cause mortality [2], [6], [7], Metabolic syndrome [3], Decreased brain function [4], and Oxidative stress [5], [7]. Most of these references talk about how there is no clear benefit o…

For completeness, I checked them all and the score is: * Rat * Rat * actually about cooking _in_ canola oil * about switching _any_ vegetable oil to _less_ olive oil * Rat * actually about a different oil with quite different content of the active acid being trialled * Rat * Rat (Oh, and the article is written by a SEO marketer)

[deleted]

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#207

Post by war1025 »

twanvl wrote: post #65

> The evidence for the harms of canola oil is still in its early days, but continues to grow. Research has linked it to: Memory impairment [1], Alzheimer’s risk [1], Cardiovascular disease [2], [5], [6], [8], Diabetes [2], Increased all-cause mortality [2], [6], [7], Metabolic syndrome [3], Decreased brain function [4], and Oxidative stress [5], [7]. Most of these references talk about how there is no clear benefit o…

> obesity in transgenic mice.

I definitely read this as "obesity in transgender mice" the first couple times and was seriously wondering if that was actually a thing.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#208

Post by lambdaba »

Jolter wrote: post #156
lambdaba wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is the fats in those oils are very susceptible to oxidation and have low smoke points, they are never safe as cooking oils for this reason. For cooking the best options outside of animal fats are olive oil and coconut oil, but of course olive oil is most versatile and better tasting imo.

I don’t know where you’re getting this from. I use canola oil when pan-frying food and it stands heat better then most olive oils. The cold-pressed variety tastes like shit though (well, actually it tastes like canola which has a kale-like flavor that I find unappealing). The refined canola oil is perfect for frying.

It might be good from a culinary perspective, perhaps smoke point is irrelevant, I was thinking of what causes degradation of the fats when subjected to heat.

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#209

Post by dpweb »

xfiz wrote: post #152

The author should write a similar article about himself, because the whole article is filled with dubious claims and misguided evidence. The two main claims are "Since the GI is a measure of how much of a negative response your body has to certain sugars" and "research showing harms from canola oil". Neither can be ascertained. A big problem with nutritional science is that it's complex, therefore it is neigh impossi…

Was the main problem the glucose spike? Could a person just test it out by measuring their blood glucose levels?

Re: Oatly: The New Coke?

#210

Post by evilsetg »

evilsetg wrote: post #16
cpach wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it kinda hilarious that despite this Oatly is very popular in vegan/new age/alternative circles. If I was a vegan I would rather drink organic soy milk.

I have similar feelings. The organic soymilk I buy has two ingredients: water and sugar. Reading the ingredient list on oat milks always makes me a bit uneasy in comparison. I do sometimes buy oat milk though since it does go better with tea.

I meant water and soybeans for the soymilk :)
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