Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever • Hacker News Board

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#361

Post by freetanga » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 6:41 AM UTC

TheReveller wrote: post #348

mrweasel wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for the 13th month bonus, I’d say it’s pretty basic. You’d get those benefits working at a supermarket. Five weeks vacation is a legal minimum. Most companies I worked for here in Denmark will give you six. It’s technically not five weeks, but 25 days.

I worked in Switzerland, the 13th month wasn't a bonus, they simply took your salary, divided that by 13, that was your monthly payment and you got 2 of them in December. Also many bills are due on the first of January for the whole next year e.g. insurance. So it was kinda like a holiday and large bill windfall, but it wasn't additional to salary. That was just one company, maybe other countries or employers are dif…

This. You know your yearly salary (gross and net). Then you get it in different schemes depending on country and company. Some I now are:

- 14 payments (extras in June and December)

- 12+1 in December

- 12 + 2 x 0.5 (one extra in June and the other In December)

I believe dates were pick to match Xmas and Summer Holidays, two big spending anomalies

Anyhow you always negotiate yearly gross.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#362

Post by nikanj » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 6:42 AM UTC

james412 wrote: post #193

michaelcampbell wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe he's the guy that can turn that around.

Lapses on that scale are not an engineering issue, they're likely a culture issue. Atlassian are a successful business that sell to engineering businesses, but that doesn't mean their leadership know or care about engineering. I'd stake a large bet on the reality he could not turn it around. Atlassian are basically the Oracle of ticket trackers

> Atlassian are basically the Oracle of ticket trackers

That's the best way of putting that I've ever heard. Stealing it.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#363

Post by ghotli » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 6:45 AM UTC

momokoko wrote: post #282

errantspark wrote: post #46

The first thing that went through my head when I saw this headline was: "Huh, maybe I should send them a resume." I'm hype if this trend continues.

Hope you like working India(Bengaluru) timezone and working for India wages. Like most that are higher percentage remote, the vast majority of development is done outside of higher wage countries and due to government currency policies are out of reach for those in country with a higher cost of living. I’m shocked how naive people seem to be in these threads about remote work. There is tons of remote work. There alre…

My experience working for the last ten years as a remote engineer couldn't be further from the way this is described. Just a single data point, ymmv.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#364

Post by alicemaz » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 6:48 AM UTC

Tomis02 wrote: post #346

alicemaz wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The reality is that there is a real advantage in working in person. it depends what their goals are. having worked in-office and remote for the same company, it's way easier to get shit done in the office. at least if you're reasonably extroverted/persuasive/bold. there are so many times I was able to walk up to someone's desk and spend ten minutes to save multiple weeks of protocol and runaround. partly because it'…

> I was able to walk up to someone's desk and spend ten minutes to save multiple weeks of protocol and runaround. partly because it's easier to apply pressure, but also partly because communicating face-to-face is so much higher bandwidth Let's ignore how you interrupting someone cost them potentially hours of productivity. I agree face-to-face is higher bandwidth for easy/simple topics. "Bob, what's the mainframe pa…

I don't mean asking technical questions, which I agree is often easier to do over text, not least because you can cite line numbers and include code snippets etc. I mean getting favors, demanding concessions, strategizing, comparing notes, etc. especially if you're running a project (as I was) and need buy-in and deliverables from people in different reporting lines (I was eng with an asterisk, depending heavily on people in qa and ops), the ability to walk up to their desk and convince them is priceless

there were more than a few times when the schedule slipped by months because someone outside the project delayed something by weeks. those kinds of issues I never had when I was in the office because I could get what we needed through force of personality. but outside, you have to go through process, and process is inefficient

seasoned remote workers might counter the org was dysfunctional (a charge I will not deny, hence why I left) but they don't have solutions other than more process. because remote depersonalizes work interactions, they have to layer on policies and documents. it's fundamentally a bureaucratizing force

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#365

Post by hinkley » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:02 AM UTC

stjohnswarts wrote: post #211

hinkley wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It was simple and reliable.

What is hard about slack? We use channels for the "group" stuff and IM for quick and dirty chats, otherwise just pick up the phone and call. I personally just prefer using email, but the kids like their slack/discord/whatever

I had a friend complain it was eating their battery, and my phone battery started acting weird around the time I installed it. Seems better now, did they ever confess to a problem?

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#366

Post by dudeinjapan » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:13 AM UTC

Atlassian tells employees they can egregiously ignore customer requests from home forever

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#367

Post by mnm1 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:14 AM UTC

smoe wrote: post #320

ryanSrich wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is hilarious to me as someone that has hired devs from Europe for a while now. Why compete with FAANG trying to pay new grads $300k when you can pay an experienced developer from Europe $100k? I honestly never understood it.

So here is couple of things, not a complete list, I would expect working for an US company: - 5 weeks paid vacation per year(6-7 if we skip regional holidays) - 13th month salary (that is independent from other bonuses) - Paid overtime the minute it goes above the agreed upon working hours. 1.5x pay for night or weekend work. - Maximum hours per week the must not be exceeded. - Protection from the employer wanting to…

Wouldn't any company hiring workers in Europe need to provide the same benefits as any European company, roughly the ones listed above? Or can an American company just hire remotely and offer American benefits directly to employees (not talking about independent contractors of course)? It would seem like the former no? Or is there a possibility of the latter? Say I'm remote and would like to work in Europe. I think this is the big problem with trying to keep a remote American job there without becoming a consultant and getting paid Corp to Corp. Is remote work for an American company even possible if that company doesn't have a European presence in the country the work would be conducted in or would they need to get such presence first before it was legal? If it's the latter (seems like it would be) it could really limit the companies willing to hire in Europe.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#368

Post by mnm1 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:27 AM UTC

paulryanrogers wrote: post #243

m463 wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> internet speeds are good (due to density probably) ISPs and wireless carriers are the most profitable companies in the USA all with 60% gross profit margin if you look and any of the financials. When my friend was younger he worked for a cable company, where he did installs. He said the capital costs were usually covered in the first month of service, and everything was gravy after that. So. What if in another coun…

Because much of the US doesn't have capitalism for ISPs. It's largely monopolies and oligopolies all around. And not the nonprofit, regulated utility type.

That's exactly the end result of capitalism, at least in America, due to lack of proper regulations. There's nothing more capitalistic than a monopoly or duopoly. Oligopoly at worst. This is the goal every single capitalistic organization in the world strives for. From Google to Apple to drug dealers and slavers they all want monopoly or close to it. To claim that monopoly is not capitalistic is delusional. It's the most capitalistic situation possible and the most desired and sought after universally. It earns the winner the most capital. America has really perfected this system in its legal markets, although on the black market many other countries have too.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#369

Post by noir_lord » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:28 AM UTC

bargle0 wrote: post #258

I feel like permanent WFH is outsourcing real estate costs to the worker. This isn’t a big deal for some, since one may live alone or already have a home office, but it gets burdensome if there is more than one home worker in a household.

If we count putting the gear on/taking it off my motorcycle commute costs me 10hrs a week on top of my 40hrs (currently).

That's time I can't get back or do anything with - compared to the remote position I just accepted (on higher pay ironically) I'll take the nominal increase in costs of working from home over that, intention was to buy a house next year and convert the garage into one half motorcycle workshop, one half office so I'll just accelerate those plans potentially.

Re: Atlassian tells employees they can work from home forever

#370

Post by john4534243 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:32 AM UTC

momokoko wrote: post #282

errantspark wrote: post #46

The first thing that went through my head when I saw this headline was: "Huh, maybe I should send them a resume." I'm hype if this trend continues.

Hope you like working India(Bengaluru) timezone and working for India wages. Like most that are higher percentage remote, the vast majority of development is done outside of higher wage countries and due to government currency policies are out of reach for those in country with a higher cost of living. I’m shocked how naive people seem to be in these threads about remote work. There is tons of remote work. There alre…

There is a ton of demand for top talent and India is not going to fulfill that. India may have higher number of engineers but the ratio of decent talent at NON-FAANG companies is very low. The reason for this is in India Engineering education is forced by the parents and that's why there are too many engineers but good ones are very few.