Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips • Hacker News Board

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#151

Post by DeonPenny » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 5:36 AM UTC

moooo99 wrote: post #53

acomjean wrote: post #5

Long term I feel China is going to work around these sanctions and such and end up completely independent of US tech.

That'll probably happen in the long term. In the short term, China might answer by completely banning US companies from the Chinese market. I don't see anything to win here. Probably every large company, including those from the US, have some kind of production facilities, storage or supplies in China. China applying similar restrictions would probably be a worse hit for the US than the current situation is for China…

I think the die has been cast. A lot of people in fact most americans I would argue not only would be ok with that but want that. Theres two options here. China flourishes and the world is in different start, or it doesn't and the worlds fine. But the current relationship is wholly untenable

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#152

Post by Gibbon1 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 5:37 AM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #120

Mindless2112 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was already China's stated goal in their "Made in China 2025" initiative. > The initiative encourages production of high value products and services, like aerospace and semiconductors, to help achieve independence from foreign suppliers. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Made_in_China_2025

What other countries have long term plans and initiatives and effectively execute on them as China does?

The US has a long term plan to outsource all those things. We're about 2/3rds of the way there.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#153

Post by DeonPenny » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 5:38 AM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #125

hyperpallium2 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. But will they then innovate at the same rate?

Why wouldn't it accelerate it? Their innovation has either already surpassed that of the west or is going that direction.

Because the minefield of chinese tech IPOs in the past year. With scrutiny it hasnt gone well for most chinese tech.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#154

Post by DeonPenny » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 5:39 AM UTC

contravert wrote: post #138

xenospn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. That’s exactly why I don’t see China surpassing the US or the west anytime soon. They can clone Tesla or Apple as much as they want - but nothing truly groundbreaking will happen, since they have been “inspired” by the west for so long.

This racist superiority complex is the pride before the fall. What exactly is TikTok's recommendation algorithms or Huawei's 5G technology cloning?

It's the risk that has to be taken. Also it isn't racist a lot of techie in silicon valley are asian. It's a difference in philosophy if anything.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#155

Post by b112 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 6:25 AM UTC

stonogo wrote: post #141

contravert wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This racist superiority complex is the pride before the fall. What exactly is TikTok's recommendation algorithms or Huawei's 5G technology cloning?

Here's a backgrounder on the Huawei IP thefts: https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-charges-huawei-with-rackete... TikTok's For You algorithm is pretty clearly based on YouTube and Netflix's published recommendation platforms, but I'm not sure why you're framing this so narrowly. The entire product is a Vine clone and they regularly steal content for marketing purposes (c.f. https://twitter.com/xTempex/status/11821855669…

There is nothing wrong with being culturalist, to be so is absolutely not racist. A black, white, etc orphan child raised in communist China, would grow up in the same culture, with the same beliefs.

Those that decry 'racist', when one complains about China are indeed the true racists, for they think culture and race = the same thing.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#156

Post by aww_dang » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 6:33 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #155

stonogo wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's a backgrounder on the Huawei IP thefts: https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-charges-huawei-with-rackete... TikTok's For You algorithm is pretty clearly based on YouTube and Netflix's published recommendation platforms, but I'm not sure why you're framing this so narrowly. The entire product is a Vine clone and they regularly steal content for marketing purposes (c.f. https://twitter.com/xTempex/status/11821855669…

There is nothing wrong with being culturalist, to be so is absolutely not racist. A black, white, etc orphan child raised in communist China, would grow up in the same culture, with the same beliefs. Those that decry 'racist', when one complains about China are indeed the true racists, for they think culture and race = the same thing.

They take it a step further by conflating the CCP with Chinese people, Chinese culture and the Chinese nation. This is a tactic I frequently see where proponents of the CCP seek to call any criticism or skepticism racist.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#157

Post by DiogenesKynikos » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:12 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #121

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Related: China can finally manufacture ballpoint pens. https://www.bbc.com/news/business-38566114

[flagged]

Don't accuse people of being puppets of the PRC. That poisons the discussion and is almost certainly wrong.

I posted this link because it's an interesting case of how something that is seemingly simple can be exceedingly difficult to manufacture. Like jet engines, ballpoint pens require advanced metallurgy to produce.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#158

Post by random314 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 7:26 AM UTC

stonogo wrote: post #141

contravert wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This racist superiority complex is the pride before the fall. What exactly is TikTok's recommendation algorithms or Huawei's 5G technology cloning?

Here's a backgrounder on the Huawei IP thefts: https://www.zdnet.com/article/us-charges-huawei-with-rackete... TikTok's For You algorithm is pretty clearly based on YouTube and Netflix's published recommendation platforms, but I'm not sure why you're framing this so narrowly. The entire product is a Vine clone and they regularly steal content for marketing purposes (c.f. https://twitter.com/xTempex/status/11821855669…

> TikTok's For You algorithm is pretty clearly based on YouTube and Netflix's published recommendation platforms

This is true of virtually any recommendation system implemented anywhere and YouTube and Netflix most certainly did not invent any of the basic concepts involved. In fact the core algorithms for recommendations are very classic and the newest techniques can be credited to Microsoft research and Geoff Hinton.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#159

Post by b112 » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 8:07 AM UTC

DiogenesKynikos wrote: post #157

b112 wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Don't accuse people of being puppets of the PRC. That poisons the discussion and is almost certainly wrong. I posted this link because it's an interesting case of how something that is seemingly simple can be exceedingly difficult to manufacture. Like jet engines, ballpoint pens require advanced metallurgy to produce.

Yes, I know why you posted this, I stated as much.

You may note that I added "(I assume)", and then asked "Why else". If people flagging your post as off topic, when it isn't, want to respond? Well, they can.

In terms of poisoning? Please. Have you looked at the rest of this discussion?

From my side of things, I prefer to keep things non-political. To simply state technical fact, and info. Yet when I see a significant divergence from that behaviour, a response is required.

Re: Huawei CEO: After September 15 No More Kirin Chips

#160

Post by _Microft » Sat, Aug 08, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

contravert wrote: post #138

xenospn wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bingo. That’s exactly why I don’t see China surpassing the US or the west anytime soon. They can clone Tesla or Apple as much as they want - but nothing truly groundbreaking will happen, since they have been “inspired” by the west for so long.

This racist superiority complex is the pride before the fall. What exactly is TikTok's recommendation algorithms or Huawei's 5G technology cloning?

I think the parent comment was talking about innovation in the sense of Peter Thiel's idea of Zero-to-One innovations, not step-by-step improvements of existing technology. In this sense I agree because chinese culture is indeed seeking harmony and unity a lot and thereby seems prone to groupthink and to the detriment of new and different ideas. (Heresy and novelty, anyone?).