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Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

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Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#431

Post by kaybe »

lm28469 wrote: post #174
kaybe wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you can generally call the city office and complain and they will put some metal there to block the light from falling into your house. It might be an option in other locations as well.

Don't houses in Germany, and western Europe, have blinds ? I only had this night light issue when living in the US

They often do, and those are quite handy, but fully closing off your bedroom windows can be bad since you won't wake up with the light and sleeping with an open window is not possible.

(Plus, the major temperature control move in summer Germany is to open everything possible at night and close it during the day. If you have mostly cool nights and good insulation that is sufficient.)

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#432

Post by cvendorx »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #394
ChuckMcM wrote: post #150

Wow. I have to say that I have never considered the case where insects needed to be saved. It seems to me that as lifeforms go, they have been the most durable form of multi-cellular life on the planet. That said, that there are negative systemic effects on the planet's ecosystems that are directly related to the massive production and use of herbicides and pesticides is not as surprising. Light though? Even after re…

Just to be clear, I'm a fan of cutting down light pollution for legitimate reasons (energy conservation, astronomical observation, and wildlife protection) but I twitch at reasons that are either exaggerated or misleading. I felt that throwing in lights along with the pesticide limitations was not a well motivated argument. My experience has shown that when people are skeptical of your argument they are less likely t…

I'm also completely in favor of reducing lights or even banning LED light bulbs, which in my opinion are also harmful to humans. Let's raise fuel prices by 100% and go back to incandescent!

But you correctly hint at the actual reason for German politics:

Nothing that hurts the economy like banning pesticides or cars will be done. So a scapegoat is needed, in this case the lights.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#434

Post by giancarlostoro »

kamarg wrote: post #248
SteveNuts wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but they could also seek that out on their own without an HOA.

An HOA that represents more people can get a better deal for the residents than a single home can on their own.

Ours definitely does, what I pay for HOA dues is nothing compared to what I'd be paying if they didn't cover my cable, internet + HBO. They bundle it up for every resident. I've seen what others pay for cable, my HOA dues basically are in the ballpark of a pretty basic internet + cable plan (in Florida) now imagine paying double, cause that's what it'd be like if they didn't bundle it. I'm pretty sure our HOA pays like $30 - $50 per house or something for plans that normally cost $100+ so it's definitely severely discounted.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#435

Post by m_fayer »

42droids wrote: post #12

German side streets are fairly dark already. This change will affect ‘large’ polluters, eg. floodlights in car parks, outside store areas, brightly lit buildings, etc. It is a very welcomed change. In our neighbourhood ppl knowingly plant flowers and leave grass grow ‘wild’ to support insects.

I love this. Of course it's different if you're in a dangerous neighborhood, but if you're not, dark streets punctuated by orbs of light from reasonably bright street lights are romantic, mysterious, sometimes soothing. It makes that evening stroll a bit more magical.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#436

Post by darkstar_16 »

thatguy0900 wrote: post #16

I actually was sitting outside a few nights ago and realized that there was no more fireflies, and I couldn't remember the last time I had seen one. I used to go out all the time during summer as a kid to catch them, they would light up whole fields. That was just like 15 years ago. Pretty sobering realization

So true. We used to have fireflies everywhere when we were growing up. My daughter hasn't seen a single one in her 9 years in this beautiful world.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#437

Post by Jakob »

m_fayer wrote: post #435
42droids wrote: post #12

German side streets are fairly dark already. This change will affect ‘large’ polluters, eg. floodlights in car parks, outside store areas, brightly lit buildings, etc. It is a very welcomed change. In our neighbourhood ppl knowingly plant flowers and leave grass grow ‘wild’ to support insects.

I love this. Of course it's different if you're in a dangerous neighborhood, but if you're not, dark streets punctuated by orbs of light from reasonably bright street lights are romantic, mysterious, sometimes soothing. It makes that evening stroll a bit more magical.

I’m the city I lived, the street lamps turned on when they sensed someone in the vicinity and turned off again after some time.

So it’s not actually dark where you are and walking, it’s just dark where no one is.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#438

Post by lazyjones »

amelius wrote: post #356
wenc wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Chicago (in a neighborhood close to downtown) and in previous years I'd hardly ever seen any fireflies. This year, they're everywhere -- in parks and even in trees on neighborhood streets. I understand fireflies are sensitive to light pollution. I can't imagine Chicago's any different from other major cities. COVID has people staying home a lot more but that has nothing to do with street lighting. I wonder wha…

How many bugs are on your car's windshield/grille, versus 20 years ago?

More... But that's because I drive at unusual hours, not when the squashed bugs are spread out over peak traffic (which has definitely increased, esp. trucks).

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#439

Post by nemo44x »

ndespres wrote: post #400
nemo44x wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there is actual data it’s probably best to not trust your memory. Every time you remember something the reality of it changes. Memory is lossy. Bias and selection are favored over improvement or precision of recall. Every recollection is inferior to the previous one. I have a few memories of extensive fire fly experiences back in the day. But when I really think about it, I don’t remember all the days and year…

What? He says he remembers fields full of fireflies. Why imply that it's memory distortion? I'm surrounded by fields and in the high point or July there are breathtaking displays of fireflies at night, and it's not my imagination. Why tell someone that they misremembered that?

I’m not saying that. Just asking if they remember an instance of it and comparing to a non-instance today.

I think I worded it poorly.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#440

Post by nemo44x »

zaarn wrote: post #404
nemo44x wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless there is actual data it’s probably best to not trust your memory. Every time you remember something the reality of it changes. Memory is lossy. Bias and selection are favored over improvement or precision of recall. Every recollection is inferior to the previous one. I have a few memories of extensive fire fly experiences back in the day. But when I really think about it, I don’t remember all the days and year…

Over the last 27 years, Insect biomass has dropped by more than 75% in protected areas in Germany. I don't think this is a memory issue. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal...

No doubt. I was just pointing to a single instance and not saying they don’t remember well or that there isn’t data regarding insects in general.

I had a similar thought a few years back and researched it only to find that the fire fly population where I lived hadn’t really changed. I just happened to be keying on a memory that had a large amount of them and not taking into consideration that wasn’t the standard case. That their yearly population is dependent on certain weather conditions during specific months. And that some years they have a bumper crop and others not so much, but on average look about the same. That doesn’t mean it’s the same story where they live of course.

Probably worded it poorly though.

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