US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days • Hacker News Board

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#491

Post by ulfw » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

orbifold wrote: post #420

donw wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US lost that near-monopoly years ago. Broadly speaking, I think we're witnessing the birth of three distinct global powers. One is centered on the US, and consists (broadly) of Canada, Mexico, the rest of Latin America, the Commonwealth nations, Japan, Korea, Israel, and Taiwan. An American civil war would destabilize this to a large degree, so we'll have to see if that plays out. Edit, since people seem confused…

A German, French and Russian alliance is probably the winning move and was thwarted more than once by Anglo-Saxon intervention. Right now the US actively tries to sabotage the Nordstream 2 completion ( https://www.dw.com/de/ist-nord-stream-2-noch-zu-retten/a-538... ), which would make Germany energy independent from US controlled Gas.

Germany hasn‘t needed US gas in a long time. There‘s plenty of LNG from Qatar and other nations on the market plus the existing pipelines for Russian gas through Ukraine etc.

Only the US wants Germany to buy American gas because $$$

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#492

Post by asa4akj » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

krn wrote: post #445

CameronNemo wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The source you linked contains no concrete evidence that TikTok poses a greater risk to national security than similar US based social networks.

How can "similar US based social networks" pose a national security risk to the US ? They might pose a national security risk to China. And that's why all the US-based social networks are banned in China. Also, the US intelligence agencies could have just validated these public claims by themselves[1]: > For what it's worth I've reversed the Instagram, Facebook, Reddit, and Twitter apps. They don't collect anywhere n…

they pose smaller risk, as they sell data to china. But that can simply be outlawed with something like GDPR, without a big drama, unlike a ban

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#493

Post by pishpash » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:33 AM UTC

tekkk wrote: post #478

sdigital wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point in reciprocity here? "And if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you".

It forces the other party to change their behavior or at least gives you leverage to make a deal where both parties would agree on some equal set of rules. Here, the freedom to use US social media apps in China and vice versa. It's an interesting turn of events, and I'm at least curious to see how this turns out. This is definitely not the start of WW3, as some have proclaimed, just US doing the same trick as China h…

Last year you may have been right, but with Pence, then Pompeo making Cold War declarations, it seems quite a bit more than that.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#494

Post by est » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

MattGaiser wrote: post #416

learnstats2 wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

I suspect the ban will just be on the monetization. So they can keep TikTok and WeChat, but will not be able to profit from them.

Monetization is also the reason China banned every US Internet service.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#495

Post by mikechen233 » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:35 AM UTC

aey wrote: post #148

thewarrior wrote: post #43

Some people here are wondering about the implications of this. What this means IMO is that all Chinese investments in SV need to be liquidated at fire sale prices in the next 45 days. Regardless of how people here feel about China this is a huge escalation. The US is inflicting huge losses on Chinese companies for no clear violation of US laws on their part. The pandoras box is now open. Do countries get to do this t…

Despite all this, US tech firms still have a harder time operating in China. > A meta point I'd like to add is that currently 10 % of the earths population in the "Westosphere" controls 60 % of the worlds wealth. True wealth is really hard to measure. Stocks and dollars and euros are not wealth. They are mediums of exchange no different then dogecoin. When I am hungry, I can’t eat them directly, I can only trade them…

Google, fb, Twitter doesn't comply with internet security law in China, which requires servers in China and content regulation. The same law applies to everyone. If you follow it by the letter, you can operate. Case in point, Apple iCloud, Amazon, Microsoft azure etc. Yes the law itself is highly controversial. I for one would want this law changed. But at least the path for market access is documented. In tiktok case, it didn't break any existing us laws. It has an American office and hires Americans to do security and content monitoring. All data is stored on US soil. It promised to let outside review of data practices and how the algorithm works. There is no clearly spelled out procedure to follow to be allowed operating in the US. I am sure tiktok people are searching in the air for ideas to get themselves allowed to operate. I think thats the difference between fb in China and tiktok in the US.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#496

Post by loceng » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

tekkk wrote: post #478

sdigital wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point in reciprocity here? "And if you gaze too long into the abyss, the abyss gazes back into you".

It forces the other party to change their behavior or at least gives you leverage to make a deal where both parties would agree on some equal set of rules. Here, the freedom to use US social media apps in China and vice versa. It's an interesting turn of events, and I'm at least curious to see how this turns out. This is definitely not the start of WW3, as some have proclaimed, just US doing the same trick as China h…

Technically this is the beginning of the next WW3, we're in the negotiation and economic pressure strategy stage - like starting to take away toys and access from a child who is behaving badly or unacceptably; easiest to reference the concentration camps the CCP is operating for million+ Uighurs, where the United Nations has accused CCP of genocide.

India has clamped down banning, and other nations and politicians - perhaps under pressure of their citizens, are waking up, becoming aware - or at least enough that politicians can then more safely take action without succumbing to propaganda coming from CCP and other bad actors who are consistently trying to undermine democracies.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#497

Post by em500 » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

sifar wrote: post #172

ekianjo wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> no longer lead by example to bring the world closer together by encouraging free markets and free people. It does not work very well if you are the only nice guy within a group of a--holes. You just end up being beaten up. Free Markets work well if pretty much everyone adopts the same rules of commerce, but China is way beyond that point.

One of my favorite Marcus Aurelius quote is "Leave the harm done by other where it started." Excluding self defense, I wonder if this can be applied to nations too.

Alan Kay has noted that vendettas are a human universal [1]: they arises naturally in any human society everywhere on the globe and in history. Rule of law is not a human universal, it requires conscious effort and continuous maintenance. I'm increasingly afraid that the relatively long period of peace in the West have lulled this generation to forget that war, not peace is the natural state of the world.

[1] http://billkerr2.blogspot.com/2008/08/what-alan-kay-said-abo...

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#498

Post by est » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:36 AM UTC

PikachuEXE wrote: post #369

ejanus wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

Agreed. It's the China government started the trend of banning apps from foreign countries so that their own companies can grow and spread outside China. I see this ban as a late but fair move.

> I see this ban as a late but fair move.

Governments ban apps at will? Sounds like a Communist Regime move.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#499

Post by chvid » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:39 AM UTC

tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

You have posted the reason why this and the TikTok ban is most likely a bluff.

This (ordering companies such as Apple and Google to sever all business with TikTok and WeChat's owners and by extension removing them from all app stores) is a cannon that only can be fired once and will be so loud that it will fundamentally damage the centralised app store model.

This is similar to the muslim travel ban and will be overturned by some court and the Trump administration probably expect this. But does this anyway for the purpose of political communication.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#500

Post by input_sh » Fri, Aug 07, 2020, 9:41 AM UTC

withparadox2 wrote: post #490

hintymad wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

China asked these companies to obey the local law, but none of them 'surrendered', not including Apple and Microsoft.

Google "surrendered" multiple times before backstepping their decision, most recent of which was the project Dragonfly that was shut down less than two years ago.