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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#391

Post by gdoptimizer »

ejanus wrote: post #359
puranjay wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

This is just wishful thinking in the current situation. Don’t expect Chinese government to reverse what it has been doing for years in this political shitshow. Chinese living in US are unfortunately sandwiched in the between and helpless.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#392

Post by fsflover »

frequentnapper wrote: post #321
danboarder wrote: post #40

This is sad, we in the US are losing the little high ground we had and no longer lead by example to bring the world closer together by encouraging free markets and free people. I'm against this protectionist nationalism, it only leads to future conflict.

You need to study up on game theory. Being the only nice guy surrounded by jerks who take advantage of you benefits them and wipes you out.

More details about it in a form of a game: https://ncase.me/trust/

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#393

Post by varjag »

xvector wrote: post #130
paxys wrote: post #91

None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home, and until China agrees to compete on a fair playing field I'm perfectly fine with them all being banned outside of their firewall. Would China ever agree to let Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Messenger etc. or any new startup operate freely and make money there? It shou…

Those companies are free to operate in China if the comply with Chinese law. The US hasn’t issued any legal barriers for TikTok to jump over, they just straight out banned it.

A ban is a legal barrier.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#394

Post by pjc50 »

peacefulhat wrote: post #356
donw wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US lost that near-monopoly years ago. Broadly speaking, I think we're witnessing the birth of three distinct global powers. One is centered on the US, and consists (broadly) of Canada, Mexico, the rest of Latin America, the Commonwealth nations, Japan, Korea, Israel, and Taiwan. An American civil war would destabilize this to a large degree, so we'll have to see if that plays out. Edit, since people seem confused…

American Civil War 2 is an impossible fantasy. You need regional divisions in the military, which we don't have. These new alliances don't make sense either.

An impossible fantasy to be sure, but one which the second amendment people love to talk up at every opportunity.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#395

Post by akg_67 »

ejanus wrote: post #359
puranjay wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

I guess, like China, USA is becoming authoritarian state. It is not about reciprocity. USA was considered the beacon of success and role model compared to China. Recent actions by USA justify other countries to do the same against foreign products and services. USA has no leg to stand on when other countries block US products and services. Good luck creating new Apple, Google, and Facebook scale companies.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#397

Post by cblconfederate »

chrisco255 wrote: post #354
cblconfederate wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> US tech firms still have a harder time operating in China. It's entirely hard to believe this considering the obscene amounts of profits that US companies make by just "designing in california". Our whole era is enabled and defined by cheap chinese labor.

Clearly many companies benefit from outsourcing manufacturing to China. But they don't own the manufacturing process, they're basically using contract labor and supply chains. Software and design has proven harder to outsource or I'm sure that would be gone, too. The point is that our software apps are not freely allowed to exist there. The firewall is a thing, information is tightly controlled, and they can't allow…

it's a tit for tat. chinese labour market isn't exactly a free market, and its state controlled policies is precisely the reason why the world chose china in the first place

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#398

Post by makomk »

greatpatton wrote: post #388
ejanus wrote: post #359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But if Chinese social media firms are freely operating in the USA why can't the likes of FB and Twitter be allowed same free access in their market. Let's not see this as harming anybody but this is one of the ways to force China to open up and allow foreign businesses(social media) to spread in their domain. Imagine being forced to open a WeChat account just to chat with someone in China. If this kind of business mo…

US companies are not forbidden to operate, they don't want to comply with Chinese surveillance laws... Apple who decided to comply indirectly by letting a Chinese company manage the data, is offering all their services there. This is a public image question for Western world companies more than anything.

The whole reason Apple let a Chinese company manage their customers' data is because the Chinese government changed the law to forbid them operate those kind of cloud services for Chinese customers themselves, the same reason other companies like Amazon have to let Chinese companies run their version of AWS: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-apple-icloud-insigh...

"In a statement, Apple said it had to comply with recently introduced Chinese laws that require cloud services offered to Chinese citizens be operated by Chinese companies and that the data be stored in China. It said that while the company’s values don’t change in different parts of the world, it is subject to each country’s laws."

Also note how the Chinese government effectively set up and runs this company, so the government more or less forced Apple to give their Chinese operations to them.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#399

Post by learnstats2 »

hintymad wrote: post #381
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

Isn't this just reciprocity? China banned a long list of media companies: FB, Google, YouTube, Twitter, Netflix, and every traditional media. Now the US is banning two apps made in China.

It feels unequal after this was called censorship and anti-democratic, being used as a basis for propaganda against China, for years?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#400

Post by Silhouette »

ludston wrote: post #345
puranjay wrote: post #328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

I'm not sure that having dash cam footage is analogous to having access to private conversations to the degree of a social media company.

In some ways, it is worse. At least the participants in a social media chat are volunteers. Cameras everywhere in cars with uploads to a central facility could be used to spy on the general public without their knowledge or consent.

Some people will probably argue at this point that there is no right to privacy in a public place. I disagree on both moral and pragmatic grounds with such an absolute statement in light of modern technologies and what privacy means (or should mean) now, but more importantly, the culture and laws in some parts of the world disagree too.

Restricting uploads of dash cam footage would be a rational response to that situation.

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