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US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

asia.nikkei.com

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Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#341

Post by zwaps »

bleepblorp wrote: post #164
paxys wrote: post #91

None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home, and until China agrees to compete on a fair playing field I'm perfectly fine with them all being banned outside of their firewall. Would China ever agree to let Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Messenger etc. or any new startup operate freely and make money there? It shou…

It's pretty much impossible for lower-income countries to develop economically without protecting their emerging businesses from being slaughtered by established foreign competition. The priority of the Chinese government is the benefit of its citizens (leaving aside that the CCP doesn't consider ethnic minorities in China to be full citizens, as this is a separate issue) and its domestic economy, not the benefit of…

But does this exact argument not also justify the US and Europe to pursue their own interests?

Isn’t that what Trump thinks he is doing?

I mean, there is plenty of countries around Europe that are sort of doing worse than China, but are still strongarmed by these Chinese.

Maybe the EU should also get in on this, not allowing any Chinese firms onside our borders. After all, our companies are even more fragile.

A call for global protectionism, in other words.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#342

Post by yumraj »

danboarder wrote: post #40

This is sad, we in the US are losing the little high ground we had and no longer lead by example to bring the world closer together by encouraging free markets and free people. I'm against this protectionist nationalism, it only leads to future conflict.

I'd rather that US lose the moral high ground than lose its bread and butter.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#343

Post by supergirl »

Shank wrote: post #141

According to Sam Dean (LA Times): "Video game companies owned by Tencent will NOT be affected by this executive order! White House official confirmed to the LA Times that the EO only blocks transactions related to WeChat." [0] So that clears up at least a little of the ambiguity. [0]: https://twitter.com/SamAugustDean/status/1291576813685108736

not yet, but this just shows how unpredictable US is. that will surely have an effect on many businesses.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#344

Post by fermienrico »

No one seems to be asking the most illuminating remark about this situation:

The US should allow TikTok if China agrees to allow unrestricted use of Instagram in China. That should have been the deal that Trump could make to expose the assymmetry of "open market" that China keeps touting about.

Everything, all arguments in this thread fall apart if people are complaining, condemning US's move to block TikTok. I agree, the justification provided by President Trump hides behind national security, it would have been far better to make a case for free trade and unrestricted access to China's domestic market.

Imagine, the opportunity for Instagram to advertise to a country of 1.4 billion people. The opportunity cost is massive.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#345

Post by ludston »

puranjay wrote: post #328
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

I'm not sure that having dash cam footage is analogous to having access to private conversations to the degree of a social media company.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#346

Post by fqye »

paxys wrote: post #91

None of these Chinese companies would have grown to what they are today without intense government-enforced protectionism at home, and until China agrees to compete on a fair playing field I'm perfectly fine with them all being banned outside of their firewall. Would China ever agree to let Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Snapchat, WhatsApp, Messenger etc. or any new startup operate freely and make money there? It shou…

You couldn't be wronger.

Alibaba wasn't protected by the government at all. Ebay's then CEO bought a local e-biz site eachnet and relocated to Shanghai but still failed at competing with Alibaba.

Amazon bought some local e-biz site too and failed at competing with Alibaba too.

MSN was a huge player in China with far more users than QQ when it was taking off. ICQ was in China too. At the time IM wans't a big deal for big players. Tencent went IPO as very small startup, far less than Sina, Sohu etc., China's portals.

Chinese internet giants could win because they adapted fast to local market.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#347

Post by lordnacho »

verdverm wrote: post #140
whateveracct wrote: post #5

Instagram Reels is launching at a "convenient" time.. . . ..

I've had a number of tik tok-ers tell me they don't care what app it is. They care about the community and creators, and they will find each other on whatever replaces TT. I was intrigued by this sentiment, the idea that the conceptual social network is the thing of value, not the application one interacts with it through.

Isn't this how real life social networks work? Some of your friends are on phone only, some you email, some on a chat service?

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#348

Post by jjeaff »

puranjay wrote: post #328
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

The fact that we are allies with Germany and that the US probably buys a lot more from Germany than Germany buys from the US.

With China, well, they are already blocking lots of American software companies so this would be more of a proportional response than anything else.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#349

Post by dodobirdlord »

bmitc wrote: post #222
TearsInTheRain wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government frequently bans foreign products that have national security implications.

What are the national security concerns for these apps that are not present in the multitude of other apps such as WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Skype, Zoom, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Google, Gmail, iMessage, Facetime, Vine, Snapchat, YouTube, etc? What about the suspicions that Trump is upset that TikTok users helped sabotage one of his big rallies and this is retaliation and thus an overextension of his powers…

> What are the national security concerns for these apps that are not present in the multitude of other apps such as WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Skype, Zoom, Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, Google, Gmail, iMessage, Facetime, Vine, Snapchat, YouTube, etc?

These are all American companies. Wechat and TikTok are controlled by Chinese companies.

> What about the suspicions that Trump is upset that TikTok users helped sabotage one of his big rallies and this is retaliation and thus an overextension of his powers and an exercise in authoritarianism (something he's already done many times anyway)?

I suspect that was actually his motive, and the national security reasoning is just a pretext. That said, a stopped clock is right twice a day.

Re: US to ban transactions with ByteDance and WeChat in 45 days

#350

Post by rubber_duck »

puranjay wrote: post #328
tannhaeuser wrote: post #324

I don't get it. It's US companies standing to loose their stronghold (near monopoly) on social, advertisement, and other forms of monetizing the web if the US creates a precedent for "national security" in this way, as in "we're welcoming social networks and free speech as long as it benefits the US and can be searched without warrant." Quite predictably, governments all over the world will be pressurized to question…

What's stopping Volkswagen from lobbying Germany to ban Teslas because all the cameras in it pose a "national security risk"? This is, by all account, a shortsighted move

TBH I can see how Tesla could be labelled that, and if it was a Chinese company I'd suspect it would eventually, the spying potential from all those streaming cameras and AI without any insight or oversight of the process.

Germany is in bed with the US, especially the secret service.

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