Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#231

Post by dependenttypes » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

thebradbain wrote: post #215

teruakohatu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-American I have never understood why a people that values personal liberties are sometimes happy to be dictated to by housing authorities. I get it with apartment buildings with shared walls and communal property, but I just don't get why you would with suburban homes.

I've personally never lived in an HOA (and would refuse to move into one), but the best ones, from what I've heard of through friends and family, are those that are hands-off, namely: 1) Optional -- This puts the onus on the HOA to actually serve its residents, because if enough people dislike it enough to leave (after, say, a few elected residents go on a power trip), it will collapse. 2) Give access to neighborhood…

The impressive thing is how HOAs are even legal.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#232

Post by efa » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:11 PM UTC

rspoerri wrote: post #15

Do you remember the time when you had to clean your windshield after driving into holidays?

Yes, last week. Driving from Texas to Wyoming and back. Tons of splattered insects.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#233

Post by calvinmorrison » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:12 PM UTC

mikepurvis wrote: post #213

msla wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Adam Ruins Everything is inherently contrarian, to the point he doesn't have a show unless he's pouring some poison on something. This influences his "hot takes" to the point I doubt any of them are honest, and I wouldn't put it past him to make shit up.

Maybe, but it's hardly a unique take: "Critics of HOAs have attacked them as a “tool for exclusion” that can encourage racial segregation. There’s no available data on the race of the owners of each particular house, so Clarke and Freedman couldn’t test this accusation directly. But they did compare the racial demographics of neighborhoods with or without HOAs, and found that neighborhoods with HOAs tended to be rich…

> that can encourage racial segregation.

Unnamed critics state things "can" do things, while the following sentence shows there is no evidence. Then there is a follow up statement that the racial demographics show that HOAs tend to be richer (A major point of HOAs is to improve and maintain neighborhood values), and less diverse. The second part on its face might seem upsetting but, you'll find largely suburban communities ARE overall less diverse. It would maybe be relevant if they found and stated "HOAs in the same zip codes as non-HOA neighbrhoods of equal value are less diverse", that might show some racial differences, but then not even necessarily bias.

In short, bloomberg is a rag and should be used to pickup your favorite pets droppings with.

edit: forgot a word

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#234

Post by dependenttypes » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:13 PM UTC

adrianN wrote: post #224

product50 wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are talking as if somehow non-Americans have access to more liberties across non-government entities in their lives. If anything, Americans treasure and enjoy the most freedoms across the widest gamut of institutions vs. non Americans.

Germans for example have an expectation of privacy at the workplace. It's not allowed to monitor a German employee's web browsing on a work computer. In the US the employer can monitor them all they want.

That does not seem very enforceable. Surely their internal DNS server and routers keep logs for example.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#235

Post by pantalaimon » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

tengbretson wrote: post #129

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

Was reserving lawns for humans and all of the countryside for bees not already a pretty sweet deal? How are we being out-negotiated by insects?

The countryside is mostly reserved for agriculture.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#236

Post by hinkley » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

Izkata wrote: post #121

nashalo_nighly wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that I hear people say « we’re having a unusually hot dry year » every year...

On that note I just did a Google search for "more fireflies this year" and got news articles saying as much from 2018, 2019, and 2020.

It's possible that some policy changes are working.

One of my favorite memories of cycling through the midwest in the early 90's was watching the redwing blackbird population slowly recover.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#237

Post by stinos » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

hn_check wrote: post #176

stinos wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

it does seem like insect populations massively fluctuate for entirely natural reasons Spot on, this is usually the real explanation for the typical 'I saw none'/'oh but I saw a bunch'/'I saw more than ever' rethoric applied to one single year or even multiple years of observations. Thinking of it, goes for basically all slowish trends related to nature. Unless you're approaching it scientifically, i.e. actual systema…

I assume fireflies are declining from the loss of habitat, along with so many other insect species. The speculation about light being a cause seems logical, but is unproven. Indeed, even the population variations of fireflies is unproven -- the wiki citation in the other link uses as its authority a cite that merely notes that they recall more when they were kids. It is an extremely poor quality citation (but it will…

Habitat loss is a key factor, probably the key factor, but the reasearch around artifical night light and fireflies/glowworms goes way beyond 'recall more than they were kids' - not sure why you'd pick that as main argument from a Wikipedia page. See e.g. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339213788_A_Global_... page 4 and beyond which reads

  Observational and experimental studies provide evidence hat ALAN adversely affects firefly populations. Several studies have shown negative correlations between high levels of ALAN and firefly abundance.

and mentions several studies regarding the subject (though also warns it's hard to pinpoint the main cause amongst the variety of other negative factors).

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#238

Post by spaetzleesser » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:14 PM UTC

product50 wrote: post #206

pradn wrote: post #199

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans only seem to value freedom from government interference in their lives. There's far more control from schools, universities, workplaces, and HOAs. Many rights like freedom of speech are curtailed in schools and workspaces, for example.

You are talking as if somehow non-Americans have access to more liberties across non-government entities in their lives. If anything, Americans treasure and enjoy the most freedoms across the widest gamut of institutions vs. non Americans.

I don't think that's true. Coming from Germany I feel that in the average US citizen living as an employee has less rights and freedoms than the average German citizen. In principle you can live a very free lifestyle in the US but you either have to have lots of money or check out from the lifestyle most people live.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#239

Post by linuxftw » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:15 PM UTC

hn_check wrote: post #108

glennpratt wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've listened to this conversation several times without looking it up, so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firefly#Conservation "Firefly populations are declining worldwide, for a variety of reasons.[25] Fireflies, like many other organisms, are directly affected by land-use change (e.g. loss of habitat area and connectivity), which is identified as the main driver of biodiversity changes in terrestrial ecosystems.[26…

Fireflies certainly are in decline in urban areas, and from that in a holistic population sense. The amount of natural areas continues to decline worldwide leading to reduced habitat for a lot of insects and animals. However I was replying to someone who stated that they live in a rural area so lighting isn't the cause. I also live in a rural area, albeit on the edge of a very large city (e.g. there is the large ligh…

> To go back to the ladybugs, specifically the Asian ladybugs, last year they were everywhere. Every corner would have a bunch of them. They'd get in the house and then smash into the ceiling near every pot light leaving discolorations (blood or something). This year I've seen barely a dozen or so all season. It's just a complete 180.

To me, it sounds like your area experienced an intentional release of the Asian Lady bug last year. TBD if they kill off all your fireflies, obviously that's pure speculation on my part.

As far as firefly decline, I don't live on the edge of a city or town. I'm actually quite rural. There are two places I've seen the decline. My home and my family's cabin 2 states away, both very rural. There has been no significant habitat change in either area, both having forest and established farms, very little development over my lifetime.

This is not an effect I noticed gradually or recently. It was about 15+ years ago now. Fireflies basically just disappeared, all at once. The colors of the remaining fireflies in both locations are also different. They were previously a yellow-green glow, and have been replaced by a more white-bluish glow.

Anyway, I don't know what caused their decline, but it's very apparent, and light pollution has nothing to do with it in my area.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#240

Post by LargoLasskhyfv » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 6:17 PM UTC

masswerk wrote: post #208

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What cost? Looking back maybe 15 years all the experiments with CCFL and LEDs were more costly than the filaments i have now. They last longer, use less, AND make light which is pleasing and usable to me. Wheee! Almost candles! edit: Last longer as in have already outlasted anything I had before them, the filaments I mean. Also not really more expensive to buy. And their energy usage is ridiculously low.

Cost as in efficiency. (Last time I looked, filaments were rated less efficient than direct light sources. However, they seem to become better.)

I'm using these [1] https://www.osram.com/ecat/PARATHOM%20Retrofit%20CLASSIC%20B...