Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#201

Post by hinkley » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

vkou wrote: post #188

teruakohatu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-American I have never understood why a people that values personal liberties are sometimes happy to be dictated to by housing authorities. I get it with apartment buildings with shared walls and communal property, but I just don't get why you would with suburban homes.

They aren't happy to be dictated to by housing authorities, it's just something they have to put up with in order to live. The cost of resisting is too high, so people end up picking their battles.

There is a surprisingly small overlap between walkable neighborhoods and HOAs.

These are, in fact, battles you can pick. HOAs feel like living in an apartment but you're also the superintendent.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#202

Post by nightski » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:40 PM UTC

teruakohatu wrote: post #187

giancarlostoro wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my case its the HOA that cares.

As a non-American I have never understood why a people that values personal liberties are sometimes happy to be dictated to by housing authorities. I get it with apartment buildings with shared walls and communal property, but I just don't get why you would with suburban homes.

HOAs provide some value, in some cases mowing, upkeep, and snow removal. I'd never live in a place with HOA dues/restrictions but for older folks who aren't as physically capable it can be really nice.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#203

Post by scintill76 » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #171

shekharshan wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, we are getting overconfident in our ability to control the planet and its resources. I believe we are privileged to share this planet with other beings. Instead we treat animals like some kind of inanimate resource.

You missed their point. The link shows that reindeer also multiplied far past their carrying point. Agent smith is wrong, plenty of mammals will overshoot given the opportunity.

Well, it was with our help...

> In 1944, 29 reindeer were introduced to the island by the United States Coast Guard to provide an emergency food source. The Coast Guard abandoned the island a few years later, leaving the reindeer.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#204

Post by hocuspocus » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:41 PM UTC

lm28469 wrote: post #174

kaybe wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Germany you can generally call the city office and complain and they will put some metal there to block the light from falling into your house. It might be an option in other locations as well.

Don't houses in Germany, and western Europe, have blinds ? I only had this night light issue when living in the US

Not everywhere in Germany, or in Western Europe for that matter.

I cannot explain why many regions that are fairly up North don't have solid outdoor blinds or shutters.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#205

Post by caturopath » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:45 PM UTC

tengbretson wrote: post #129

zackmorris wrote: post #109

The best thing we can do on a personal level is to stop using broadleaf weedkillers like Scott's Weed and Feed and other herbicides like glyphosate (Roundup). I've been doing handyman work at my boss's house during COVID-19 and he has clover growing in his yard. He has a fair number of bees, certainly more than on my end of town which is all chemlawns. It's arguably ok to use a little weed killer by hand on dandelion…

Was reserving lawns for humans and all of the countryside for bees not already a pretty sweet deal? How are we being out-negotiated by insects?

https://miro.medium.com/max/750/1*MzqQm_K3sdO8RFibufJJBA.jpe...

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#206

Post by product50 » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:47 PM UTC

pradn wrote: post #199

teruakohatu wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-American I have never understood why a people that values personal liberties are sometimes happy to be dictated to by housing authorities. I get it with apartment buildings with shared walls and communal property, but I just don't get why you would with suburban homes.

Americans only seem to value freedom from government interference in their lives. There's far more control from schools, universities, workplaces, and HOAs. Many rights like freedom of speech are curtailed in schools and workspaces, for example.

You are talking as if somehow non-Americans have access to more liberties across non-government entities in their lives. If anything, Americans treasure and enjoy the most freedoms across the widest gamut of institutions vs. non Americans.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#207

Post by kibwen » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:48 PM UTC

ashtonkem wrote: post #26

This is good; we've badly underestimated the cost of excess light pollution. Also good is using more LED street lamps that focus the light where we need it, rather than all over the place. Light pollution is bad, and street lights are very power hungry, with the old sodium lights consuming up to 0.25kWh per hour.

Here's a quite good video about the pros and cons of LED vs high/low-pressure sodium street lamps: https://youtube.com/watch?v=wIC-iGDTU40 . It goes into lamp efficiency, how our eyes see differently at night, response time under different sorts of light, color temperature, circadian rhythm disruption, and light pollution.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#208

Post by masswerk » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

LargoLasskhyfv wrote: post #145

masswerk wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The basic light emitted by LEDs is generally quite cold (high color temperature). We can manufacture LEDs just in a few basic colors, where the blue ones are the most efficient. We haven't managed yet to produce something at scale like the light typically emitted by incandescent light bulbs. RGB light doesn't help here, since this is still emitting high temperature components, which are only mixed with lower energize…

What cost? Looking back maybe 15 years all the experiments with CCFL and LEDs were more costly than the filaments i have now. They last longer, use less, AND make light which is pleasing and usable to me. Wheee! Almost candles! edit: Last longer as in have already outlasted anything I had before them, the filaments I mean. Also not really more expensive to buy. And their energy usage is ridiculously low.

Cost as in efficiency. (Last time I looked, filaments were rated less efficient than direct light sources. However, they seem to become better.)

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#209

Post by ip26 » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:49 PM UTC

marviel wrote: post #57

masswerk wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, cold LED light is part of the problem. Better focusing only mitigates the problem they are posing.

Can you explain what you mean about the risks of cold LED light? I'm unfamiliar with this problem

Cold means high blue content. Blue light is the one that most disrupts insects, nocturnal animals, your night vision, your own sleep cycle, and contributes the most to obscuring the stars.

Re: Germany plans to dim lights at night to save insects

#210

Post by fasteddie31003 » Thu, Aug 06, 2020, 5:50 PM UTC

thatguy0900 wrote: post #16

I actually was sitting outside a few nights ago and realized that there was no more fireflies, and I couldn't remember the last time I had seen one. I used to go out all the time during summer as a kid to catch them, they would light up whole fields. That was just like 15 years ago. Pretty sobering realization

I was driving though Nebraska a few months ago and there were so many fireflies it looked like a scene out of Avatar.