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China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

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Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#81

That loudspeaker broadcasting fun "facts" is an interesting way to reeducate captives. IIRC, the consensus among most Western experts is that this type of brainwashing isn't effective.

It's just one component of indoctrination. China also has experiences with prior re-education and work movements. Xi himself was sent to Yunnan (Down to the Countryside Movement) the TLDR is he's a believer. Work camps work, especially on impressionable generations. That's how you create red guards, and why CCP has been trying to ram patriotic education down HK throats. I feel like west likes to reaffirm anecdotes from Chinese cabbies who bitch about the dark times, when in reality those times also forged many believers. People conflate failed economic reforms with failed indoctorination movements. China of that era had much better success re-engineering souls than development - the former merely requires rhetoric which is free, whereas the latter requires capital which is not. Neither words or capital are constraints anymore. Uyghurs also skew young being exempt from family planning policy, so reeducating the youngest generation will shift the entire regions sentiment in 10-20 years assuming the region receives commiserate economic development - hence the vocational training component.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#82
post #48

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

My suggestion is that you shouldn't bother. The Chinese people would not believe the Western media narrative on Xinjiang (XJ), which also doesn't really have credible sources if look deeper into their "facts" [0]. And it is increasingly clear that the XJ narrative is a US-backed propaganda rather than factual reporting [1]. Most of us would consider the western people being brainwashed into believing whatever the med…

What is - in your opinion - a good English language source for getting a grasp of what is going on in Xinjiang?

And how is the western concern for human rights abuses in Xinjiang being covered by the Chinese media?

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have been frequently asked about political events/situations in Germany Do those involve anything as awful as what's happening in China? If they were and you were asked to comment, how would it make you feel? > I have to say I also find it chilling to say we can't discuss topics which have political implications Sure you can! Just not at work. Mate, don't do it. Take it from someone who can't keep his mouth shut.

"Just not at work" always sounds strange to me, a lot of people know all their friends and acquaintance exclusively from work, so when people is recommended to avoid talking about those issues with coworkers many times the result is for all practical purposes they are being told to avoid talking about the issue at all. I'm not sure what the solution is but "just not at work" doesn't seem to be it.

> a lot of people know all their friends and acquaintance exclusively from work

What country is such a workers' paradise? De Tocqueville wrote that the US was a nation whose social life was composed of overlapping circles of voluntary associations, which sounds much more like the situation here than that (to my eyes) dystopic description (of a world where one's only relations are not only by a single path, but that path is tied to the economic), so I'm assuming you're living elsewhere.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#84
post #24

A recommended watch: https://youtu.be/WmId2ZP3h0c This is what China wants you to see. Now think about what they don't watch you to see.

That video is really creepy. One guy is dancing in front of the camera with a huge bruise on his face - possibly the victim of some "reeducation"

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#85

That loudspeaker broadcasting fun "facts" is an interesting way to reeducate captives. IIRC, the consensus among most Western experts is that this type of brainwashing isn't effective.

Perhaps, just a thought, that is because it's not intended for brainwashing as that term is usually used, but simple behavior modification. The difference being that it's not about inducing belief in the content of propaganda, but constantly underlining what beliefs it is acceptable to demonstrate outward compliance with , while other avenues demonstrate the cost of non-compliance. The brainwashing doesn't happen to…

So it is just harmless nudging?

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#86
And don't forget what's happening to Falun Gong practitioners in China [0][1]. Although I can't be sure, from observation it seems to me like this information is still more heavily embargoed both in China and beyond. The persecution of Uighurs is getting China a lot of heat internationally but domestically it doesn't seem to be as disruptive.

Demonizing Uighurs has been much easier given their different ethnicity, religion and effective confinement to a given region. It's easy for people to assume this will never affect them. With Falun Gong you're dealing with millions of members of the mainstream Chinese society who have been subject to all this and worse.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Go...

[1] "Hard to Believe - Full Documentary - Now free to watch during coronavirus lockdown" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR5o43zZSiA

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#87

As an American, as terrible as the Chinese actions against the Uighurs in Xinjiang are I still feel we should prioritize ending our nearly twenty year long war in neighboring Afghanistan. We've created millions of refugees, caused over a hundred thousand people to die, and committed numerous human rights violations. Yet the press coverage it gets mostly centers around how we dropped the "mother of all bombs" on them…

You're completely right, but it's not going to stop the campaign against China, because human rights are not the issue. If it was, people would be out in the streets protesting all day against business done with Saudi Arabia. And people would also protest daily against the human rights violations perpetrated by the US around the world (the UN hasn't lift a finger about that either). The whole goal of the campaign is…

Plenty of people are protesting against business with Saudi Arabia. The reason you see so much anti-China sentiment is likely a result of China having managed to become a part of the lives of people in western countries.

Oil states play a huge role in the lives of people who follow football due to UAE/Qatar having ownership of large clubs, similarly, there have been a lot of protests with regard to the 2022 FIFA World Cup which will take place in Qatar.

Another example is the assassination of Jamal Khashoggi.

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#88

I've been wondering how I could bring this up with the mainland Chinese I know. It's particularly difficult, because for some of them I'm in a supervisory/managerial role, but I don't want to put pressure on them, which would raise all sort of other ethical dilemmas and would likely not be effective. Anyone else can share experiences?

Why would you want to bring that up with them specifically?

Not advocating that people should look the other way, but I wouldn't like superiors associating me with the deeds of the government of China.

It might have been a good idea to actually support the protests for freedom in Hong Kong, but the "west" looked extremely weak here, laden with its own problems.

edit: Just to clarify, I wouldn't bring up Hong Kong either...

Re: China Uighurs: A model's video gives a rare glimpse inside internment

#89
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're completely right, but it's not going to stop the campaign against China, because human rights are not the issue. If it was, people would be out in the streets protesting all day against business done with Saudi Arabia. And people would also protest daily against the human rights violations perpetrated by the US around the world (the UN hasn't lift a finger about that either). The whole goal of the campaign is…

Plenty of people are protesting against business with Saudi Arabia. The reason you see so much anti-China sentiment is likely a result of China having managed to become a part of the lives of people in western countries. Oil states play a huge role in the lives of people who follow football due to UAE/Qatar having ownership of large clubs, similarly, there have been a lot of protests with regard to the 2022 FIFA Worl…

I'm waiting for when western countries will start to protest against the US.
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