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U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

reuters.com

51–60 of 260 posts

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#51
Their requirement is to make the AoA disagree light standard? Wow that's next to nothing.

For those that don't remember, the AoA disagree light is an optional, costs-extra safety feature on this model.

How about we add a big fat MCAS disengage button to the yoke instead, and make it separate from the trim cutout switch?

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> only there to adjust flying characteristics when the wing is at a high angle of attack. No, that's a Boeing talking point. It's there to prevent the aircraft from stalling, not to 'adjust flying characteristics.' The nose pitches up during high thrust, MCAS kicks in to to counter what the pilot is doing (stick and thrust) so the plane doesn't stall.

All planes with low mounted engines (read: most current jet airliners) pitch up with increased thrust. It's not controversial, and pilots deal with it routinely. MCAS does not activate under normal flight conditions.

> MCAS does not activate under normal flight conditions.

This is entirely the problem. If MCAS operates, you're already doing something wrong. It was required in the first place because the likelihood of pilots doing something wrong is high. Now, instead of MCAS backing up the pilot's bad decision making, it might cut out at a critical moment.

We already know that Boeing revised (increased) the authority of MCAS without notifying the FAA because testing found the MCAS to be inadequate initially.

You can't simultaneously need MCAS and be okay with it being disabled intermittently. Those two things are directly at odds.

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#53
post #46

Given the upcoming Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 release, I wish it could provide us non-commercial flyers with a simulation of the flight controls under the specific events that cause failure in the Max 737. I realize the subject isn't something a corporation would touch or code for, nor do they have a 737 in the lineup for 2020, but it would provide me with better understanding of the problem.

Given that the 737 isn't fly by wire the forces needed to operate the controls is something critical that a home sim isn't going to be able to model.

There are force feedback joysticks, though I don't know whether something like MS Flight Simulator supports that.

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#54
post #26
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Looks like it: https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-employees-wouldnt-let... > 8 months before the first 737 Max crash, 2 Boeing employees talked about how they wouldn't let their families fly on the plane

I would imagine with a company of the size of Boeing you could find a larger group of folks that wouldn't allow their families to fly in any airplane.

What would you imagine the percentage is at companies whose primary business is producing airplanes?

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#55
post #6

Given the option, would anyone choose to book a trip on one of these new Boeing aircraft rather than anything else? I know I wouldn't, my family wouldn't, and none of the friends or co-workers I've discussed this with would. Something tells me airlines are going to be making it even more difficult to determine which aircraft you'll be flying on when you book a ticket. As far as I know they're not required to tell you…

Given the amount of additional scrutiny these models are getting I wouldn’t be surprised if in the long run of their lifetime they have a better safety record.

Do we know or is a reason to believe that FAA checked anything else then the MCAS and the systems related in the crashes? The MAX has probably many differences because is larger so all the new stuff should be put under the microscope since you can't trust the previous tests, measurements or decisions, Boeing guys were proud on how they mind tricked the FAA guys so FAA should now re=review everything then you can be 100% this airplane was scrutinized.

If this already happen and I missed it please link me to it.

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#56
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn’t an email link with Boeing employees basically saying the exact same thing? “I’d never let my family fly on one” or something?

Looks like it: https://www.businessinsider.com/boeing-employees-wouldnt-let... > 8 months before the first 737 Max crash, 2 Boeing employees talked about how they wouldn't let their families fly on the plane

The interesting thing is that this didn't have anything to do with the quality of the plane at all - they were working on the simulator, and their messages were about how they wouldn't trust their family on planes trained using that simulator. As far as I know, the simulator in question was never used since the whole point of the whole mess was to ensure pilots trained on the existing 737 were allowed to fly the Max without any extra simulator training.

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#57
This proposed AD would require installing new flight control computer (FCC) software, revising the existing Airplane Flight Manual (AFM) to incorporate new and revised flight crew procedures, installing new MAX display system (MDS) software, changing the horizontal stabilizer trim wire routing installations, completing an angle of attack sensor system test, and performing an operational readiness flight.

https://kokpitherald.com/faa-releases-737-max-review-propose...

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#58
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would. I get it that Boeing messed up the first time, but this was always a failure that was preventable with proper pilot instruction and awareness. Even if they didn't fix the software I couldn't imagine a 737MAX pilot not being aware of this. People still drive Tesla's using autopilot and they drive head on into barriers on the highway or under trailers and decapitate people.

You have more confidence in the plane than the people who designed and built it. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/09/business/boeing-737-messa...

While Boeing totally screwed the pooch on this one, and I won't be choosing to fly on one if I can, the public having more confidence in a system than its creators/domain experts isn't exactly uncommon. Would you trust your medical record privacy to Windows XP running AVG?

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#59

Given the upcoming Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 release, I wish it could provide us non-commercial flyers with a simulation of the flight controls under the specific events that cause failure in the Max 737. I realize the subject isn't something a corporation would touch or code for, nor do they have a 737 in the lineup for 2020, but it would provide me with better understanding of the problem.

I would imagine, with a bit of work, you could write something for X-Plane to replicate the issues. X-Plane is pretty extendable and already has configurable failures, including pitch trim runaways.

Re: U.S. FAA proposes requiring key Boeing 737 MAX design changes

#60
post #6

Given the option, would anyone choose to book a trip on one of these new Boeing aircraft rather than anything else? I know I wouldn't, my family wouldn't, and none of the friends or co-workers I've discussed this with would. Something tells me airlines are going to be making it even more difficult to determine which aircraft you'll be flying on when you book a ticket. As far as I know they're not required to tell you…

I wouldn't either and none of my friends & family would. In fact, I don't see how the they can even take the chance of flying this plane without a complete structural redesign. Another crash and they are finished for good. This spells doom for boeing. If some airlines tried to hide or change the type of aircraft you have booked, then you can be sure there will be others that won't (and make it a selling point).

Boeing owns enough of the US legislature through bribery or in-district employment to never, ever, ever have to worry about bankruptcy or any other adverse market impact.

Will they be allowed to teeter on the edge of insolvency? Sure. Fall over? Not when taxpayer money is free and infinite.

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