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Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

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Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#91

Post by dragonwriter »

zenexer wrote: post #90
ardit33 wrote: post #20

If Tiktok was European/Japanese/Korean/Canadian this would not happen, as those countries are free democracies and work with a similar/common rule of law 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules, and it has been proven to be a malicious player 2. They don’t allow western companies to operate freely in their country, why should we let them to? 3. The US and to a lesser degree Europe, are in a de-facto new Cold War, a…

You’re skirting around the argument. The parent’s argument is that no single politician should have this power. It isn’t an argument for or against the government stepping in here—it’s an argument against who’s doing it.

Genuine emergencies (IEEPA expressly addresses seems conflict with special provisions, and arguably mostly is made for that and conditions imminently threatening it) may need responses inside the legislative cycle, which is why IEEPA exists. Certainly, it's arguably been stretched beyond the basic intent in the past (but Congress hasn't reasserted itself in response), and even by the standards of past use this is somewhat ludicrous, but I think that the basic concept is one which makes the case that it's not the President having the power to exercise judgement in this area that is the problem but the judgement actually exercised.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#92

Post by jkulubya »

morpheuskafka wrote: post #74

Why doesn't TikTok just move out of the US completely? As far as I know, Trump does not have the authority to block foreign websites that he doesn't agree with (for example, the webpages of foreign terrorist groups or criminal organizations are easily accessible). The whole authority for Trump to block this is that ByteDance (a Chinese firm) is investing in TikTok (a US company). If TikTok was run abroad, and had no…

That was my initial line of thinking as well, until someone reminded me of some government list that TikTok could be added to which would require that they’re pulled from the app stores.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#93

Post by 8note »

ardit33 wrote: post #20

If Tiktok was European/Japanese/Korean/Canadian this would not happen, as those countries are free democracies and work with a similar/common rule of law 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules, and it has been proven to be a malicious player 2. They don’t allow western companies to operate freely in their country, why should we let them to? 3. The US and to a lesser degree Europe, are in a de-facto new Cold War, a…

I don't think it matters whether China is a democracy or not. The US has been a malicious player for the past few years -- Canada has similarly been labeled a threat to national security.

What does matter is that China is starting to become strong enough to be a regional power, which is a threat to American dominance in East Asia

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#94

Post by Zuider »

puranjay wrote: post #29
ganfortran wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that is the case. Look up how Japanese companies are treated in late 80s and 90s. When one felt under threat, all rules will be forgone.

Free Market for me, not for thee

I think game theory can offer some insight. A tit-for-tat approach has been shown to be an effective long-term strategy over multiple iterations of the Prisoner's Dilemma. Player A will be discouraged from acting adversarially if they have reason to believe that player B will respond in kind.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#95

Post by rvz »

bogomipz wrote: post #58
osrec wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tiktok users did boycott the Tulsa rally. I think that annoyed him, and this may well be petty retaliation.

While that is certainly true there has also been significant congressional interest in Tik Tok and possible security implications going back to October of last year. Marco Rubio asked the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States, to review TikTok’s acquisition of rival app Musical.ly. The impetus seems to have been a Washington Post story that ran that September[1] that questioned the absence of Hong Kong…

No idea why you are downvoted given the historical content outlining the controversy of TikTok being a security risk before all these bans taking place. It sounds more than just about the Tulsa rally if even Biden is telling staff to delete the app. [0] These investigations aren’t limited to the US, but Japan and Australia also share these concerns. [1][2]

They talk about ‘freedom of speech’ in TikTok which first of all for its US operations, it doesn't apply to private companies like TikTok, FB and Twitter. However the censorship case is far much worse. Anyone who appeared ‘Ugly or Poor’ was censored [3], they ‘apologised’ for censoring BLM posts on the platform at the time calling it a so-called ‘Glitch’ [4] and still actively censor activists or anything against the CCP in order to comply with its censorship laws.

If anything, TikTok is far from being a platform to supporting this ‘freedom of speech’ if that ever ‘existed’ before it rose to prominence [5].

[0] https://edition.cnn.com/2020/07/10/politics/dnc-warning-tikt...

[1] https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20200728_39/

[2] https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-08-02/tiktok-under-investig...

[3] https://theintercept.com/2020/03/16/tiktok-app-moderators-us...

[4] https://time.com/5863350/tiktok-black-creators/

[5] https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/26/tiktok-says-it-doesnt-censor...

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#96

Post by dwd »

ptx wrote: post #42
ardit33 wrote: post #20

If Tiktok was European/Japanese/Korean/Canadian this would not happen, as those countries are free democracies and work with a similar/common rule of law 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules, and it has been proven to be a malicious player 2. They don’t allow western companies to operate freely in their country, why should we let them to? 3. The US and to a lesser degree Europe, are in a de-facto new Cold War, a…

> 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules ... > 2. They don’t allow ..., why should we let them to? Because, as you said in your first point, we play by different rules. Do you want everyone to start playing by China's rules instead?

This is a good point.

American exceptionalism is based on the premise of taking the high road (free, open democracy, rule of law, basic freedoms, "give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free...", etc) and being a success because of that.

To now play by China's rules basically says America has been doing it wrong the last 100 years.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#97

Post by throwaway5752 »

dencodev wrote: post #76
throwaway5752 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever is wrong with China, and there is plenty, the US and particularly the president's behavior is dictatorial here. Perhaps the administration could outline the new intel that has come to light in the last month that has made this such an urgent issue right now, as opposed to any other time in the past year. Otherwise, as a layman, I might think that the humiliating "million ticket reservation" prank of the pres…

It's well within the rights of the president to negotiate these matters, and congress has increasingly over the decades encouraged it: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44707.pdf

I don't disagree with you. I think we've all found that a lot of the structure of US society and government have assumed non-malicious and non-criminal actors past a certain point. Frankly, I think the system assumes a capable enough public to elect competent and decent people, and should that ever fail there is nothing really worth saving, anyway.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#98

Post by bromuro »

zmmmmm wrote: post #13

The idea that corporations are kowtowing to a polticians individual personal wishes - rather than operating under a framework of laws and regulations based on principles and administered fairly to all - should be offensive to every single American, regardless of who the players are or their country of origin.

On the other side, politicians have always obeyed to corporations desires.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#99

Post by endogui »

cmiles74 wrote: post #70
marcinzm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive orders aren't magic, there's some law they will reference as giving the president the power to issue such an order.

I don't see any reason to think this will be the case. The White House issued an executive order meant to intimidate Twitter after they labeled some of his tweets. That order did not cite any relevant body of law.

I haven't seen the EO, but didn't it cite section 230, which regulates how websites can filter content to maintain safe harbor status?

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#100

Post by endogui »

bigpumpkin wrote: post #50
ardit33 wrote: post #20

If Tiktok was European/Japanese/Korean/Canadian this would not happen, as those countries are free democracies and work with a similar/common rule of law 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules, and it has been proven to be a malicious player 2. They don’t allow western companies to operate freely in their country, why should we let them to? 3. The US and to a lesser degree Europe, are in a de-facto new Cold War, a…

1. There's the First Amendment in the US 2. Tens of millions of Americans use Tiktok as a platform for speech. 3. Now Trump wants to prohibit the platform which enables the free exercise of political speech against him. What's more important, geopolitical considerations or the Constitution?

The first amendment doesn't preclude the government liquidating a news business or publisher for unrelated reasons, such as fraud or tax violations. In this case Bytedance is basically being accused of (being accomplice to) espionage.
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