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Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

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Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#71

Post by em500 »

Slartie wrote: post #43
marcinzm wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Executive orders aren't magic, there's some law they will reference as giving the president the power to issue such an order.

Except for there being this joker called "national security" which magically allows practically anything to be ordered by the executive, because you can obviously reframe anything into a matter of national security, even short video clips of dancing teenagers.

"Security" also happens to be the favorite purported justification of most authoritarian measures in evil regimes. Just look at China: ubiquitous surveillance, censorship, concentration camps, suppression of dissent are all justified internally as "security measures".

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#72

Post by whoisthemachine »

scarface74 wrote: post #40
bilbo0s wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand your question, but I'm sorry, that just sounds bush league to me. So you have to change your business to suit every political party that comes to power? That's a lot of unpredictability. How can you run a business like that? Plus, what if elections are "postponed until a more appropriate time"? I mean, the environment would just be riddled with so much uncertainty that I'm not sure how an honest business…

I’m so confused. Didn’t I just read several submissions where almost every person was cheering the government threatening to become involved in Big Tech?

It's a very different matter when a government acts within the bounds of its authority. In the case of the congressional hearings, that is well within their bounds, and antitrust law is established law. This is a president asserting executive authority in a way without precedent as far as I know.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#73

Post by whoisthemachine »

bilbo0s wrote: post #19
whoisthemachine wrote: post #10

This is just wild. What will happen when or if a president of a different party is elected?

I understand your question, but I'm sorry, that just sounds bush league to me. So you have to change your business to suit every political party that comes to power? That's a lot of unpredictability. How can you run a business like that? Plus, what if elections are "postponed until a more appropriate time"? I mean, the environment would just be riddled with so much uncertainty that I'm not sure how an honest business…

I completely agree with you. That was the main purpose of my question, without so many words.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#74

Post by morpheuskafka »

Why doesn't TikTok just move out of the US completely? As far as I know, Trump does not have the authority to block foreign websites that he doesn't agree with (for example, the webpages of foreign terrorist groups or criminal organizations are easily accessible). The whole authority for Trump to block this is that ByteDance (a Chinese firm) is investing in TikTok (a US company). If TikTok was run abroad, and had no presence in the US there is nothing Trump can do, and US customers could still use the site.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#75

Post by threeseed »

MarkMarine wrote: post #66
threeseed wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's be clear apps like TikTok are a threat to national security. Widely deployed apps that capture location data can and have been used to determine the location of military bases and assets.

This is a parity of a NatSec threat. Any base that is legitimately secret would disallow it’s personal from using apps like this. And that data is trivially replaced by satellite photography. Non secret bases are supported by hundreds of “Third Country Nationals” that do everything from trash collection to serving food in the chow hall. TikTok is not a natsec threat unless our military personnel are posting natsec in…

But what is happening is that personal devices are being used by military personnel on those bases. We’ve seen plenty of examples in the past of where location information has been leaked e.g. Strava.

And satellite photography can’t be used to extrapolate troop numbers, movements etc. Especially given that it can be done in real time.

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#76

Post by dencodev »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #69
ardit33 wrote: post #20

If Tiktok was European/Japanese/Korean/Canadian this would not happen, as those countries are free democracies and work with a similar/common rule of law 1. China doesn’t play with the same rules, and it has been proven to be a malicious player 2. They don’t allow western companies to operate freely in their country, why should we let them to? 3. The US and to a lesser degree Europe, are in a de-facto new Cold War, a…

Whatever is wrong with China, and there is plenty, the US and particularly the president's behavior is dictatorial here. Perhaps the administration could outline the new intel that has come to light in the last month that has made this such an urgent issue right now, as opposed to any other time in the past year. Otherwise, as a layman, I might think that the humiliating "million ticket reservation" prank of the pres…

It's well within the rights of the president to negotiate these matters, and congress has increasingly over the decades encouraged it:

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/R44707.pdf

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#77

Post by Hydraulix989 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #65
alfiedotwtf wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an app is a national security threat, maybe people shouldn’t be carrying them around military bases :shrug:

Many of those bases will have baby + home security cameras which are far more obviously a security risk, because they (potentially) send WiFi passwords home. Trump's move is pure theatre. He has no clue about real security and he's throwing his weight around like an attention-seeking child, because that's what he does. This is an entirely orthogonal issue to something that's been missing in the West for decades - a c…

I fail to see how domestic US regulations will help in this case, if users are willingly installing this spyware app on their phone in the first place and giving it the requisite permissions to access everything on the devices. Do you think China will comply with US protections?

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#78

Post by faned »

em500 wrote: post #71
Slartie wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except for there being this joker called "national security" which magically allows practically anything to be ordered by the executive, because you can obviously reframe anything into a matter of national security, even short video clips of dancing teenagers.

"Security" also happens to be the favorite purported justification of most authoritarian measures in evil regimes. Just look at China: ubiquitous surveillance, censorship, concentration camps, suppression of dissent are all justified internally as "security measures".

Should white nationalists be allowed to march and exist in the public space?

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#79

Post by Jordrok »

splintercell wrote: post #48
javagram wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the president is taking this actions in retaliation for the expression of free speech on the platform (TikTok audience skews young, which is a very anti-trump demographic) that may violate the First Amendment if proven. Viewpoint discrimination is against the first amendment. We know Trump wasn’t offended by the idea that foreign countries might be trying to help him get elected, and has repeatedly called it a “Ru…

Tiktok is the only platform where Trump supporters aren't banned. Not to mention, (white) zoomers lean very much to the right.

> Not to mention, (white) zoomers lean very much to the right.

Huh? Where on Earth did you get that idea? From what I've read and observed, it seems like while they may not be self-identifying as "liberal" or Democratic on quite the same level as Millennials, they still seem to hold views which are far from what you'd traditionally call "very much to the right".

https://www.pewsocialtrends.org/essay/on-the-cusp-of-adultho...

https://www.businessinsider.com/gen-z-changes-political-divi...

Re: Microsoft and Bytedance Put TikTok Talks on Hold After Trump Signals Opposition

#80

Post by rascul »

threeseed wrote: post #75
MarkMarine wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a parity of a NatSec threat. Any base that is legitimately secret would disallow it’s personal from using apps like this. And that data is trivially replaced by satellite photography. Non secret bases are supported by hundreds of “Third Country Nationals” that do everything from trash collection to serving food in the chow hall. TikTok is not a natsec threat unless our military personnel are posting natsec in…

But what is happening is that personal devices are being used by military personnel on those bases. We’ve seen plenty of examples in the past of where location information has been leaked e.g. Strava. And satellite photography can’t be used to extrapolate troop numbers, movements etc. Especially given that it can be done in real time.

> And satellite photography can’t be used to extrapolate troop numbers, movements etc. Especially given that it can be done in real time.

Estimates can be made regarding troop capacity and capabilities based on the billeting and vehicles in the photos.

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