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Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

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Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#41

Post by dragonwriter »

vorpalhex wrote: post #27
gmantg wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to disclose anything: plausible deniability is enough. And "bias" can be fixed by ad-hoc quotas.

Why wouldn't an HR person or hiring staffer immediately out the company or even sue them?

> Why wouldn't an HR person or hiring staffer immediately out the company or even sue them?

They wouldn't out the company because hurting the company for no private gain doesn't help them, and they wouldn't sue the company because they’d be a beneficiary, not an injured party, and so would have no damages to claim.

And also because both acts would destroy their future employability in the field.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#42

Post by xwdv »

jermier wrote: post #37

There are people out there resisting these efforts. For example, I know people who are against smartphones and use a so called 'dumbphone' or feature phone for their main number. If they need to buy groceries, they refuse to use a loyalty card, and always pay in cash. They typically have a secure and private laptop with something like Ubuntu on it, and use Firefox with all the anti-tracking features enabled, and uBlo…

Well then these people are fucked. Much like how using no credit means you have no credit history and a low credit score, you will have a very hard time trying to buy a house.

If you spend your whole life being anonymous, be prepared to be treated as a high risk consumer who cannot participate in certain things, because of a low social score.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#44

Post by white-flame »

icedistilled wrote: post #39
Eyght wrote: post #9

I feel like the Chinese style social score system won't have enough support in government for most countries, but we'll receive a decentralized version anyway through corporate overreach. Also, it's always amusing to arrive at an article about data collection and be greeted by this: https://i.imgur.com/d4Z4sdd.png

I mean, it's already standard practice (All states except CA) to use credit score in things like pricing your auto insurance. It's only a tiny leap to incorporate a similar magic number some company comes up with. Actually due to competition, if it correlates to risk, all companies will literally be forced to use the magic numbers or go into an adverse selection death spiral. Unless there is regulation against it, li…

One difference there is that people do have the right to view and challenge credit reports, while all this other social scoring is hidden from the targeted people.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#45

Post by icedistilled »

annoyingnoob wrote: post #20
cosmodisk wrote: post #5

People are complex. If some piece of code is used to predict my employability based on my facial expressions, there's not much to add. It's already as bad as it gets: you can't say/write anything non vanilla in public because 10 years later some HR snooping app will analyze the sentiment on the post and outright reject you. And we all kind of blindly walking into this no questions asked.

At least the Chinese system is out in the open. Many private companies surveilling everyone without anyone's knowledge is terrible. Companies using these scores are really only targeting a group of people that allow the collection to happen. My car insurance company would sure love to put a tracker in my car but there is no way in hell that is going to happen. I'm sure my driving style would qualify me for higher rat…

Yes they would, but the flip side of them not being able to price people based on actual driving behavior is by charging all men higher, all single people higher vs married people, and poor people higher based on credit score.

Plus why single out insurance companies and ban them from creepily tracking you wherever you go and not all the other companies who do that with your cell phone.

Also to be pedantic, the don't want to put trackers in the car, that is expensive. They want to use your cell phone like all the other apps tracking you, or they want the car manufactures to let them in on their data since most modern cars have the ability to track and broadcast location.

>made a claim where I was at fault.

That's a big caveat. There are plenty of accidents that are truly not one parties fault, but according to law even being judged as 49% at fault is still "not at fault". And even in cases of 0% at fault as determine by the insurance adjusters, theres a big chance one still had contributing factors.

Also, there's a big chance not at fault claims will be taken into account when pricing you and raise your prices. Just right??

On the other hand, not at fault accidents do correlated with higher risk, and it's easy to see why. For example, people who get rear ended are not at fault. But following the car ahead too closely leads to needing to brake harder, increasing the chance of being rear ended. Following too closely also increases the chance of rear ending the vehicle in front.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#46

Post by partyboat1586 »

xwdv wrote: post #42
jermier wrote: post #37

There are people out there resisting these efforts. For example, I know people who are against smartphones and use a so called 'dumbphone' or feature phone for their main number. If they need to buy groceries, they refuse to use a loyalty card, and always pay in cash. They typically have a secure and private laptop with something like Ubuntu on it, and use Firefox with all the anti-tracking features enabled, and uBlo…

Well then these people are fucked. Much like how using no credit means you have no credit history and a low credit score, you will have a very hard time trying to buy a house. If you spend your whole life being anonymous, be prepared to be treated as a high risk consumer who cannot participate in certain things, because of a low social score.

When I graduated high school ~10 years ago I remember one of our schools leadership gave a speech on making a good record of yourself on social media rather than avoiding it. This was when companies first started looking up people's Facebook. He was way ahead of his time but he was missing a key part which is the expansion of data collection into every aspect of our lives. It's not just social media you need to worry about.

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#47

Post by dane-pgp »

hnhg wrote: post #8
dijksterhuis wrote: post #2

I remember once being in a branch of HSBC trying to sort out a loan. I saw on the screen for my account they had a score of something like "customer behaviour", which was like 54 something. I had drunkenly called HSBC and ended up ranting at the person on the phone a few times (lost cards etc) so I think this was a rating of how well behaved I was towards their staff. The manager I was speaking to changed his tone fa…

Shouldn't you be able to demand an explanation of how that score was calculated under GDPR? I'm really curious as to what it means now!

https://gdpr-info.eu/art-14-gdpr/

"2. In addition to the information referred to in paragraph 1, the controller shall provide the data subject with the following information necessary to ensure fair and transparent processing in respect of the data subject:

...

(g) the existence of automated decision-making, including profiling, referred to in Article 22(1) and (4) and, at least in those cases, meaningful information about the logic involved, as well as the significance and the envisaged consequences of such processing for the data subject."

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#49

Post by grazhero99 »

Do you guys think there's any realistic hope today (not accounting for what kind of horrible stuff might be possible in the future) of being able to keep your 'genuine' online activities separated from your public facing, sanitized ones? Such that no company's HR department would be able to tie your real life identity to your real online activities? I imagine it could be possible if you're serious and rigorous about it.

Or am I being naïve for even entertaining such a thought?

Re: Data isn't just being collected from your phone, it's being used to score you

#50

Post by rhn_mk1 »

xwdv wrote: post #42
jermier wrote: post #37

There are people out there resisting these efforts. For example, I know people who are against smartphones and use a so called 'dumbphone' or feature phone for their main number. If they need to buy groceries, they refuse to use a loyalty card, and always pay in cash. They typically have a secure and private laptop with something like Ubuntu on it, and use Firefox with all the anti-tracking features enabled, and uBlo…

Well then these people are fucked. Much like how using no credit means you have no credit history and a low credit score, you will have a very hard time trying to buy a house. If you spend your whole life being anonymous, be prepared to be treated as a high risk consumer who cannot participate in certain things, because of a low social score.

That may well be, but that's not the spirit. Instead, "if we all resisted more, we'd be free of that crap".

Granted, this is the tragedy of the commons. By acting in one's own interest: get a good score, people poison the well for everone: everyone must work and self-censor to keep a good score.

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