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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#551

Post by scarface74 »

d0gbread wrote: post #549
scarface74 wrote: post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes because out of all the issues that voters care about. I’m sure “breaking up big tech” so you can put an emulator on an iPhone ranks above (hopefully my list equally hits conservative and liberal talking points): - gun control - health care - unemployment - “The War on Christmas” - “those evil immigrants who are taking away your jobs” - banning straws so we stop killing fish - free college education The fact is th…

But everyone does NOT know how much data they hand over and how that's used to stifle competition, innovation, and has attributable impact to many of the other items you list - and that's what's being vetted right now. No one has issue with high revenue, that's the reward for winning. We're discussing HOW you win, and if that needs modification. Most people I know are more than capable to read, learn, and form educat…

Well, we have statistics. We all know how most people vote.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/244367/top-issues-voters-health...

Where do you think the following issues rank in the list?

Facebook/Google collecting data. Especially in the case of FB where people willingly give it data.

Amazon - effects on small retailers (disclaimer I work at AWS)

Apple -

A) taking a 30% cut when most of the money comes from play to win games.

B) Or that you can’t sign up for subscription services in the app

C) you can’t sideload. People have been fine with buying through iTunes/App Store since 2003.

We know that many people on the right are single issue voters - religion, gun rights , abortion. There are probably many single issue voters on the left. The only one that I can think of is “not Trump”.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#552

Post by wayneftw »

scarface74 wrote: post #412
wayneftw wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t put your product in Walmart is your product guaranteed to be a failure? Have you ever heard of anybody releasing a wildly successful app and it not being in the Apple app store? Are you aware that there are many many many more stores like Walmart than there are stores like the Apple app store?

If you don’t put your product in Walmart is your product guaranteed to be a failure? Tell that to all of the low end TV manufacturers, game systems (see Sega), toy manufacturers, and back in the day musicians who went out of their way to create an edited version just for Walmart.

That proves nothing. Those products would not have failed if they were not in Walmart because there are plenty of other outlets instead of just two.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#553

Post by wayneftw »

xvector wrote: post #477
scarface74 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you trust the current politicians who were more concerned about Big Tech being unfair to conservatives than they were about antitrust. Did anything productive come out of the dog and pony shoe?

It is honestly frightening that HN wants to give the government more power over tech after what we've seen from Australia and forced backdoors.

Yeah, you’re right...Anybody should be allowed to do anything that they want like on the highway where you’re allowed to just ram your car into other drivers without any consequences.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#554

Post by scarface74 »

wayneftw wrote: post #552
scarface74 wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don’t put your product in Walmart is your product guaranteed to be a failure? Tell that to all of the low end TV manufacturers, game systems (see Sega), toy manufacturers, and back in the day musicians who went out of their way to create an edited version just for Walmart.

That proves nothing. Those products would not have failed if they were not in Walmart because there are plenty of other outlets instead of just two.

So where else can toy manufacturers go in 2020 to sell their toys in retail? The music labels and movie studios knew they couldn’t be successful before digital without Walmart

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#555

Post by scarface74 »

wayneftw wrote: post #553
xvector wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is honestly frightening that HN wants to give the government more power over tech after what we've seen from Australia and forced backdoors.

Yeah, you’re right...Anybody should be allowed to do anything that they want like on the highway where you’re allowed to just ram your car into other drivers without any consequences.

Right because ramming your car into someone else is the equivalent of not being able to side load apps on a phone that you don’t have to buy.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#556

Post by scarface74 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #446
scarface74 wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It also proves the point that consumers don’t care.... We have decades of viruses, malware, ransomware, and toolbars on Windows PCs that prove that the average consumer isn’t that technologically savvy. I’m not saying Macs are immune in anyway to the same exploits. It’s just that not enough people care to create malware on the Mac to make it that big of a deal.

Actually, all it proves is that the Amazon store is inferior to the Google Play store.

As it proves that when people have a choice - ie can afford it - they would rather buy Apple walled garden and all over Android where you can sideload.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#557

Post by scarface74 »

627467 wrote: post #394
scarface74 wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you buy a Tesla you know you can’t go to a gas station. Is it the governments responsibility to keep you from buying a device that didn’t meet your needs?

I keep reading "can't" and I can't imagine how owning a Tesla prevents me from doing business in a gas station.

Can you buy gas or even use a standard charger for your Tesla?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#558

Post by Apocryphon »

scarface74 wrote: post #525
Apocryphon wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, they should have cracked down on that spyware earlier, and their failing to do so until they had a competing app to push both casts their motivation behind banning those apps as suspicious, and calls into question the supposed "quality" of the review process. At worst, they did it to Sherlock competitors. At best, they were negligent, their review process is overrated and does not do enough to protect consumers…

So you propose that Apple never crack down on them? Apple loss money by giving away a free alternative instead of taking a 30% cut. What next? Are you going to complain that Apple made it harder for advertisers to track you?

Apple should have cracked down earlier, simpler as that. The fact they didn't makes them look like hypocrites. I'm aware that it's impossible to go back to earlier and crack down then to not look like hypocrites. So it's important that going forward they are less capricious about enforcing App Store guidelines and don't make themselves look bad.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#559

Post by Apocryphon »

scarface74 wrote: post #526
Apocryphon wrote: post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like it's more likely to happen on Android https://9to5google.com/2020/07/13/google-and-microsoft-pwa/ ...than on iOS https://www.cnet.com/news/google-web-app-plans-collide-with-...

So this is going to be the year of the dominance of the web app after close to 15 years?

You asked if there are a large amount of successful web apps on Android, I provided evidence that points to the likelihood of it happening on that platform over iOS, due to official first party interest and efforts and improving them. You're moving the goalposts, and arguing just for the sake of arguing.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#560

Post by zepto »

tsherr wrote: post #255
zepto wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if I choose not to be forced to deal with a multitude of different stores? It seems like you want to remove that choice.

That's a truly silly comment. Based on that there should only be one grocery store to shop at and one place to work.

We generally don’t think it’s a good thing when people are forced to work multiple jobs, and we call it a food desert when you have to hunt lots of different stores to get the basics.

The idea that more choices is always better is just ideology.

It is quite obviously possible to move from a situation in which there is no choice and where there are some problems, to a situation where there are multiple choices and none of them are as good as the be no-choice case.

I do think there are problems with Apple’s store.

I think law may be needed.

I don’t think antitrust law forcing ‘competition’ has any likelihood of solving the problems.

If we think there are rights vendors should have over stores - e.g. the right to describe their product however they like, we should establish that in law for all stores.

If we want to use law to force our cooperations to limit the practices they can use in other countries as a way to put pressure on other political systems, those are called sanctions. I’m fine with those being applied if our government decides to apply them.

Again, nothing to do with anti-trust.

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