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Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

cnbc.com

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Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#181

Post by stale2002 »

akersten wrote: post #69
remarkEon wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What point are you trying to make here? That the US Government does not have the sovereign authority to determine what companies operate within its borders? Edit: Yeah, instead of downvoting this into oblivion, how about making an argument that the US Government doesn't have the authority to determine what companies operate within its borders.

> What point are you trying to make here? That the US Government does not have the sovereign authority to determine what companies operate within its borders? My point is that the US president does not have the authority to tell a US company (Google/Apple) to "stop distributing this code (speech)," because that is the only way a ban like this could be implemented. Well, there are other ways, but all of them involve l…

> My point is that the US president does not have the authority to tell a US company (Google/Apple) to "stop distributing this code (speech)," because that is the only way a ban like this could be implemented.

Yes they can. Who is going to stop them? If the judges/supreme court says that it is legal, then there is nothing that these companies can do to stop the US justice system telling them to do so, and fining or arresting them if they refuse to comply.

> Well, there are other ways, but all of them involve legislation by congress and things like Great Firewalls

No. All you have to do is bring it up in US court, and fine/arrest people if they refuse to comply.

This is how the law works. If you don't follow it, you get fined. And if you continue to not follow it, then mens with guns, known as the police, come to your house, grab you, and put you in a jail cell.

The law is enforced by force. And you really can't just ignore US law like that, if you have any presence at all in the US. Which major companies do.

> I would still object but it would not be because I think they lack authority

You can "object" all you want. But if the judges of the US disagree with you, then none of that matters. You don't decide what the police do. Thats what the courts are for.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#182

Post by tanilama »

euix wrote: post #48

Shows how far the balance of power has shifted in the last 20 years back when the Chinese government was banning western products to prevent "spiritual pollution" and "western influence". Now we got the reverse and it's also for ideological reasons (at least at face value). Wonder if WeChat is next. That would be fairly effective in prevent overseas Chinese from communicating with the mainland and a lot of mom and po…

No Westerners actually use Wechat.

TikTok is getting mainstream in US.

That is the difference

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#183

Post by ur-whale »

markus_zhang wrote: post #64
euix wrote: post #48

Shows how far the balance of power has shifted in the last 20 years back when the Chinese government was banning western products to prevent "spiritual pollution" and "western influence". Now we got the reverse and it's also for ideological reasons (at least at face value). Wonder if WeChat is next. That would be fairly effective in prevent overseas Chinese from communicating with the mainland and a lot of mom and po…

Ah...calling cards, purchased a lot 15 years ago, and I had to use them ASAP, or their value depreciated quickly.

> or their value depreciated quickly.or thor their value depreciated quickly.eir value depreciated quickly.

Somewhat OT, but nothing has changed there. Phone plans minutes also become useless after a while.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#184

Post by chillacy »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

Reminds me of a Taleb article I read: Most Intolerant Wins

https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#185

Post by grazhero99 »

akersten wrote: post #157
grazhero99 wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would congress struggle to pass it through a constitutional review? Plenty of Trump's EOs have been ruled unconstitutional. He may feel that his authority extends beyond checks and balances, but it doesn't. His attempts to abuse his power have been duly mitigated and stopped about as well (or badly depending on how you look at it) as the last few presidents, as I see it.

> Why would congress struggle to pass it through a constitutional review? Because a computer program is an expression, and the right to free expression is a cornerstone of the first amendment. So broadly, I don't think the government can "ban" an app, no matter who wrote it. This proposition has been tested and affirmed for source code (see DeCSS t-shirt, etc.) but to my knowledge has not been tested for binaries. So…

Ok. That's an argument for why this is unconstitutional, but not for why congress would be unable to declare it so.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#186

Post by free_rms »

khuey wrote: post #172
free_rms wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is incredibly inaccurate. You work in tech, right? Ever run this take by your Chinese coworkers? Ask them about their families' connection to Chinese tradition?

That "X thousand years of history" is a myth Chinese people believe about themselves doesn't make it true or a useful way of understanding anything.

It's... literally true, you can look up photos of turtle shells with characters etched into them on Wikipedia.

That doesn't mean they're perfect or blessed but they've definitely been there the whole time.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#187

Post by tanilama »

magicsmoke wrote: post #168
khuey wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it just implies that the Golden Rule still exists?

The US seems to have been fine shrugging off the Golden Rule and giving China a pass for decades because it felt like it was the bigger man. Now, we're seeing the US admit that the gap has closed.

Maybe the gap is indeed closed

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#188

Post by khuey »

free_rms wrote: post #186
khuey wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "X thousand years of history" is a myth Chinese people believe about themselves doesn't make it true or a useful way of understanding anything.

It's... literally true, you can look up photos of turtle shells with characters etched into them on Wikipedia. That doesn't mean they're perfect or blessed but they've definitely been there the whole time.

Stonehenge is also between 4 and 5 thousand years old but it's not going to tell you anything about the mystical traditions of the people of the British Isles.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#189

Post by dragonwriter »

quotemstr wrote: post #87
dependenttypes wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state already blacklists certain programs. Pretty much anything that illegally contains copyrighted content or some other form of illegal numbers.

No, the state doesn't blacklist programs. Code is speech. Bernstein v. Department of Justice established that [1] in the 1990s. Sure, if you have an app, and you distribute copyrighted material as part of that app, yes, you can be prosecuted under copyright law and be forced (via injunction) to stop distributing that app. But the word "law" is essential: there is a specific rule, set out in advance, which applies to…

> You can't just bypass the whole "make a rule" and "show that $X broke the rule" thing and go straight to "punish X".

Yes, as long as the punishment isn't essentially criminal in nature, you can, and it's long been a regularly used tool of foreign policy, under the International Emergency Economic Powers Act. When sanctions are declared against foreign companies or individuals or trade with them otherwise restricted, it's based on declared threats to the country, not general rules that are announced in advance and then the specific individuals involved found guilty in some judicial process of breaking after the rule was declared. It's all by executive finding.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#190

Post by Viff »

ptx wrote: post #178
hourislate wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered a Chinese App on 10's of millions of phones across the US and the security implications? I would think an adversary like China could very well take advantage of that.

Good point. By the same reasoning, China should of course ban American apps. Edit: As they have done. (So don't complain about unfair market access, as they clearly have good reasons. Right?)

China already did that a long time ago.
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