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Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

cnbc.com

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Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#141

Post by billfruit »

ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

But this measure isn't bring contemplated from that motive, it appears, the whole narrative is about some perceived threats to national security, which most analysts think is over hyped and only 'theoritical'.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#142

Post by khuey »

justinzollars wrote: post #115
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #106

Not even getting into the CCP ties, it's always struck me as unfair that Western social media companies are banned in China, while Chinese ones have been able to compete Worldwide. In a way this gives Chinese apps an immediate advantage (as some are indirectly calling out in this comment section). If you want to reach out to someone in China, you have to use a Chinese company's app. Since social media is mostly a win…

After reading many books on China I learned China values social stability over everything. In its 4,000 year history they have seen the dangers of social instability. We are a very young country and haven't seen what real chaos can look like. (These ideas are from Henry Kissinger's on China, Destined for War by Graham T. Allison and The China Dream by Liu Mingfu)

This is a typical orientalist take. Most of the world is well aware of "the dangers of social instability".

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#143

Post by xxpor »

oefrha wrote: post #114
kortilla wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think there is infrastructure in place in the US to prevent access to an IP space.

You just ask ISPs to not resolve the domain names. That would make it inaccessible to the vast majority of people, which is more than enough to kill a social network.

I would hope ISPs would refuse to cooperate. Ban it at the store level.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#144

Post by xxpor »

quotemstr wrote: post #87
dependenttypes wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The state already blacklists certain programs. Pretty much anything that illegally contains copyrighted content or some other form of illegal numbers.

No, the state doesn't blacklist programs. Code is speech. Bernstein v. Department of Justice established that [1] in the 1990s. Sure, if you have an app, and you distribute copyrighted material as part of that app, yes, you can be prosecuted under copyright law and be forced (via injunction) to stop distributing that app. But the word "law" is essential: there is a specific rule, set out in advance, which applies to…

And SCOTUS has shown no issue with rebuking Trump for shortcutting the APA.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#145

Post by dragonwriter »

burtonator wrote: post #62
zelly wrote: post #35

Hopefully this will raise awareness on PWAs. Hopefully using PWAs on mobile will be normalized by the 18-24 year olds. TikTok's PWA seems intentionally gimped (you can't even search) but I will bet it will suddenly start working once it disappears from the Western app stores. Is there anything TikTok does that the Web Platform + WASM cannot do? (besides spying)

I'm not even sure POTUS can ban a site just by an executive order... unless I'm REALLY weak on US law... but a PWA wouldn't stop this. Most of the mobile APIs aren't available on PWA and if the site is blocked via route it won't help

> I'm not even sure POTUS can ban a site just by an executive order... unless I'm REALLY weak on US law...

Being ignorant of the special area of law that is “Presidential emergency powers regarding trade with foreign nations” isn't necessarily being really weak on US law generally, though that narrow area of law ends up contravening a lot of what you might correctly understand elsewhere when it is triggered.

It's not clear exactly what the content of the order will be, without which we can't really begin to assess whether he has the power to issue it, but there are certainly, at a minimum, things he could due to obstruct their ability to fully interact with US markets under Presidential emergency powers. Given that Trump's I formal descriptions preceding executive actions have not been a particularly good guide to the details of the actions, I don't know that any deeper analysis wouldn't largely wasted.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#146

Post by tchaffee »

busymom0 wrote: post #70
croutonwhiskers wrote: post #45

Wasn't microsoft trying to acquire tiktok? Why not just let that happen rather than try to do something so extreme? I'm not partial to tiktok at all but this is way to much of a big government move than I feel comfortable with. Isn't this a violation of our first amendment rights?

First amendment rights don’t apply to foreign companies. I see this as the same thing as banning Huawei.

The first amendment is a negative right: it forbids the government from acting. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech..." The Supreme Court has historically ruled on a regular basis that most US Constitutional protections extend to non citizens too. Unfortunately the conservatively biased Supreme Court last month decided that interfering with freedom of speech is OK against a foreign company. A loss for freedom and a victory for authoritarianism.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#147

Post by khuey »

magicsmoke wrote: post #96
nan0 wrote: post #49

Could this be the same as a tit for tat measure like with tariffs? China has banned a lot of US services and forced US corporations to pull content from their stores too [0] [1]. Genuinely asking and want to remain open-minded about this. 0: https://www.gadgetsnow.com/slideshows/10-popular-apps-and-we... 1: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.news18.com/amp/news/tech/ch...

It definitely mirrors the kinds of restrictions China puts on US companies with joint ventures, censorship of sensitive topics, and keeping data on Chinese servers. However, I think why this feels unsettling even if it just mirrors what China's done is because up to now there was a sense that the US has a stronger economy, society, and culture than China, and these restrictions China put on US companies reflected the…

Or maybe it just implies that the Golden Rule still exists?

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#148

Post by Ericson2314 »

khuey wrote: post #142
justinzollars wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading many books on China I learned China values social stability over everything. In its 4,000 year history they have seen the dangers of social instability. We are a very young country and haven't seen what real chaos can look like. (These ideas are from Henry Kissinger's on China, Destined for War by Graham T. Allison and The China Dream by Liu Mingfu)

This is a typical orientalist take. Most of the world is well aware of "the dangers of social instability".

Yeah, if you speak of a nation as an single individual, I've got news for you, you're doing it wrong.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#149

Post by UncleEntity »

croutonwhiskers wrote: post #45

Wasn't microsoft trying to acquire tiktok? Why not just let that happen rather than try to do something so extreme? I'm not partial to tiktok at all but this is way to much of a big government move than I feel comfortable with. Isn't this a violation of our first amendment rights?

> Isn't this a violation of our first amendment rights?

Arguably it would be a violation of the Bill of Attainder Clause.

Re: Trump says he will ban TikTok through executive action

#150

Post by xxpor »

cromwellian wrote: post #136

This will be a huge gift horse to Zuckerberg/Facebook and I have a sneaking suspicion it's a project of Peter Thiel. There are a lot of remedies that could be taken if we suspect TikTok of malfeasance, but a straight up ban? I smell fish.

If it is a project of Peter Thiel, I would hope that would finally wake everyone up to how bad faith calling himself a libertarian is.
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