Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years” • Hacker News Board

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#651

Post by spaceflunky » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:32 AM UTC

ISL wrote: post #647

stephencoyner wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is very true. One of the first artists I noticed doing this was a rapper, Curren$y. All the mixtapes were free on Datpiff.com (major throwback) and the tours / Merch were the $$$ makers. This also allowed artists to go fully independent and keep all their profits. Added into the mix now are independent vinyl / cd / tape makers who the artists partner with on Physical music releases. Yes, physicals are back in a…

The Dave Matthews Band had a very permissive bootleg policy (bootlegs are fine, we'll even help you place microphones for the best quality, you just can't sell the bootlegs) which was important to the early popularity of the band.

I know that DMB, Phish, and TGD have a BIG bootleg community. I think this is a great idea and key to their success as cult bands.

I wish more bands would do this. Something about a bootsy live album with all its background noise and character that makes it very entertaining.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#652

Post by 8f2ab37a-ed6c » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:33 AM UTC

I'm curious if anybody here has the experience to compare how much harder it is to make a living in music as an artists vs how hard it is to break into tech.

I'm biased myself, having spent the last 20 years studying software dev and then working in software. I feel that while it is a lot of work, the market is quite hot for any technical talent, and making a decent living is straightforward. Even a shitty software dev likely makes a comfortable living, you don't have to be Jeff Dean. In CS you can graduate from MIT and probably be set for life, but in music you can graduate from Juliard or Berklee and likely still be living on a futon for decades. Or am I off here?

Whereas as a solo producer/composer (or someone in a band) it seems that getting anywhere near ramen profitability is really really hard. It's reminiscent of startups: you have to find your niche, you have to constantly stay relevant, you have to market yourself incessantly on every medium, and most likely you'll be drowned into obscurity by someone else who became a winner-take-all in that space. And while the payoff for founders in small to medium startups is still pretty decent (and can be life-changing), as an artist is seems like the polarization between starving and huge is even greater.

Even in photography you can always "sell out" and shoot weddings in perpetuity while you're doing more artistic work on the side. And that "main gig" pays reasonably well, even though it's exhausting. But with music things like playing gigs will likely not get you anywhere close to sustainability. Maybe teaching is the "weddings" of music?

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#653

Post by lubos » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:33 AM UTC

burntoutfire wrote: post #374

shakezula wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your friend was absolutely right. I never cared if people pirated my bands music (or later the bands that I was managing) because the real thing I wanted was them showing up at shows, buying merch, posting us on facebook, asking events to bring us on, etc... At a certain point, Taylor Swift and larger artists _do_ make a good chunk of change from their actual music sales, but it isn't a feasible strategy to rely on t…

> Your friend was absolutely right. I never cared if people pirated my bands music (or later the bands that I was managing) because the real thing I wanted was them showing up at shows, buying merch, posting us on facebook, asking events to bring us on, etc... This model breaks down for people like me who are neither interested in merch nor in going to concerts. I just like the music.

You always represent value even if you don't pay. You might introduce the music to someone who will pay. It's freemium model applied to music industry.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#654

Post by tikwidd » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:36 AM UTC

bobthepanda wrote: post #22

shakezula wrote: post #4

I used to work in the music industry professionally, on the ground level doing booking and management. This trend has been happening slowly for nearly a decade but it’s finally here. Rap and Hip Hop figured out a long time before most other genres that rapid small releases was a far better way to keep hype and sales up. Before Spotify was a thing, the shift was happening with YouTube but it wasn’t as predominant. Now…

Korean pop music has been doing this for a while too. This group has pretty rapid releases, 5 singles a year, and 10 EPs and 3 albums since 2015. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twice_discography

In addition, Kpop groups put a huge amount of effort into their physical albums. Sales of physical albums are extremely high in Korea (Japan I think too) compared to other countries (just my impression, but if anyone has sources I'd be interested).

Albums are usually sold as boxes with a photo book inside and collectible cards, they are almost more like magazines. Some albums come in different editions with different idols featured - it's common for a fan to buy multiple copies of the same album in hopes of getting the edition or cards of their favourite idol (bias). The fans see album purchases and 'streaming' (playing their youtube singles on repeat) as ways to support their groups and increase their reputation.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#655

Post by mmis1000 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:44 AM UTC

gwd wrote: post #81

quacked wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The music isn’t your product, the music is your marketing. The shows, the merch, your influence - that’s your product. Man, that's depressing.

>> The music isn’t your product, the music is your marketing. The shows, the merch, your influence - that’s your product. > Man, that's depressing. If the CEO of an open-source company said, "Software isn't our product, software is our marketing", would you feel the same way?

Isn't is? open-source company typically don't sell 'software'. They sell 'support' ans 'service'. And even microsoft, a typical software company do this now

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#656

Post by hedora » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:45 AM UTC

shakezula wrote: post #4

I used to work in the music industry professionally, on the ground level doing booking and management. This trend has been happening slowly for nearly a decade but it’s finally here. Rap and Hip Hop figured out a long time before most other genres that rapid small releases was a far better way to keep hype and sales up. Before Spotify was a thing, the shift was happening with YouTube but it wasn’t as predominant. Now…

I prefer to listen to bands that produce an excellent album every few years, vs a pile of sameness every three months.

Examples: “Boy Meets Robot”, “Unwoman”, “The Darkest of the Hillside Thickets”, “Goldfrapp”, much of what is featured on “Dark Compass”.

Where do people go for music like this? Bandcamp? Other places?

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#657

Post by benzguo » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:48 AM UTC

Sharing a concrete example: 4 friends of mine are in a moderately successful band in LA. They have 1M monthly listeners on Spotify, and their top track has 17M plays. Spotify sends them ~$2k/month, which isn’t enough for 4 to live on (they live together, and record with their own equipment in a rented house). To make ends meet, they play live shows and tour (which isn’t an option anymore). Support your favorite bands by buying merch.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#658

Post by analog31 » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:51 AM UTC

shakezula wrote: post #265

ssully wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never worked in the music industry, but hasn't it always been this way? I have a lot of my grandparents old records, and when I first went through the collection I was surprised at the output of some artists both big and small. The obvious example would be Elvis. Just counting his studio albums, the guy put out over 20 albums over his career 24 year career, and that isn't counting singles, soundtracks, or whatever…

Nope, it definitely hasn't always been this way. When vinyls were the predominant media form, it was prohibitively expensive for most artists to press a master, cut vinyls, package them, market it, and distribute it. I can do all of that in 10 minutes with Spotify now. Tapes made this a little bit faster. And then CDs made it a little bit faster from there. And then MP3 players made it quite a bit faster. And then do…

Oddly enough, in the decades before the phonograph, there was a sheet music industry with almost every feature of the recording industry. There were superstar composers, such as Scott Joplin, shady deals, composers getting rich and then getting screwed, the whole nine yards. People bought sheet music to play on their parlor pianos.

There was plentiful work for pianists and organists in movie theaters before the talkie. And so forth. Musicians have faced a constant back and forth relationship with technology practically from the git go.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#659

Post by tchaffee » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

fludlight wrote: post #557

philmcc wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not touching the whole heft of the argument, I would like to point out that the original poster didn't compare the difficulty of writing a hit song to a "hit app", he compared a creating a hit song with creating working software. I can co-sign on this part of his premise. I worked for a music producer who has a number of #1 hits (Beyonce, Fergie, John Legend etc). He wrote >1 songs per day almost every day for over a…

Can you ELI5 what a music producer does? Was he also a writer or is writing part of producing? What is placement?

So hard to put into words because the role is so varied but thinking of them as an artistic coach or mentor to the band while recording is perhaps accurate enough. Often hated or loved by the band and or fans of the band for the direction they push the music and the overall sound of the music.

Re: Spotify CEO: musicians can no longer release music only “once every 3-4 years”

#660

Post by hedora » Sat, Aug 01, 2020, 2:53 AM UTC

benzguo wrote: post #657

Sharing a concrete example: 4 friends of mine are in a moderately successful band in LA. They have 1M monthly listeners on Spotify, and their top track has 17M plays. Spotify sends them ~$2k/month, which isn’t enough for 4 to live on (they live together, and record with their own equipment in a rented house). To make ends meet, they play live shows and tour (which isn’t an option anymore). Support your favorite bands…

Assuming a 90% cut for record stores and labels, I imagine they’d have gotten about a million collectively back in the 90’s.

1M * $15 * 0.1 = $1.5M