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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#471

Post by xvector »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #354
wlesieutre wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate that iOS does not allow software to require this. Yes you can avoid the giant mess of 3rd party launchers on Mac, but only by writing off huge swaths of the software market. Want to run Photoshop? You get to have the Creative Cloud client. The current state of iOS software is that I never have to go into Task Manager and see what junk has inserted itself as a startup item, whether anything will break if…

The current state of iOS software is that you can't run Signal in China. Or torrent client anywhere.

Okay, and why is it your fundamental right to be able to do either of those? On what basis should a company be compelled to implement that functionality?

You can always buy a device that allows you to do those things, after all. It's not like Apple is the only device vendor out there, or even a majority device vendor.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#472

Post by scarface74 »

Apocryphon wrote: post #466
scarface74 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually screen time limits are all done locally and sync between your devices. It in no way allows Apple to record what you are doing.

That doesn't distract from the fact that analogous third party apps in this category was wholeheartedly permitted on the App Store until Apple decided they wanted their own app in this space.

So because Apple once allowed spyware they should always allow spyware?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#473

Post by scarface74 »

Silhouette wrote: post #468
scarface74 wrote: post #465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple makes money from not allowing third party web browsers?

Of course it does. Apple makes a huge amount of money from native apps. Apple also prevents web apps from competing with those native apps by restricting the capabilities in its browser and by not allowing anyone else to offer an alternative browser with more functionality.

So there should be a large amount of successful web apps on Android?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#474

Post by xvector »

jedberg wrote: post #420
bzb3 wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was completely aware of the software limitations of my iPhone before I bought it yet I did. What you want already exists and it's called Android.

Android doesn't fit my needs. It doesn't integrate with my laptop and my watch. The hardware isn't as good. The privacy isn't as good. That would be like telling me that if I don't like the Honda Accord I can buy a pickup truck. They are different things and are not substitutes for each other. Android is not a substitute for iOS.

> Android is not a substitute for iOS.

Regardless they compete in the same market, and Android dominates. You have a choice, and Apple is not a monopoly.

Just because Apple doesn't make the product you want doesn't give you the right to compel them to do so.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#475

Post by zepto »

acituan wrote: post #228
zepto wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or if Facebook had one, and Amazon had one? And when developers are forced to support all 5 big ones? And when any benefit of a reduction in fees is completely lost because of the requirement to support all 5 stores? If the remedy for Apple picking winners is more stores, then it just means all of the big players will get to pick winners. There is absolutely nothing whatsoever that is pro consumer about having Google…

> And when developers are forced to support all 5 big ones? That is a big assumption. Who is the forcing agent here you are positing? The whole point of making app stores a multiagent game is to reduce the leverage of one to force things on developers and consumers. > If the remedy for Apple picking winners is more stores, then it just means all of the big players will get to pick winners. For this to happen as bad a…

Developers are complaining that the 30% is a problem.

If this is true, then they will be forced to support any store that has 15% of the market or be worse of than they are today.

Some of the stores will just be bargain basement garbage with nasty policies and perhaps no less than 30% commission, but will have market power because they are owned by Facebook or google.

It will absolutely be worse than today’s monopoly.

If things are made even worse for developers, consumers will not benefit.

It’s true that there will be more ‘choices’ that everyone will be forced to make

But better software won’t be one.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#476

Post by Apocryphon »

scarface74 wrote: post #461
Apocryphon wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://appleinsider.com/articles/20/06/12/apple-seeking-to-... https://www.thestreet.com/investing/california-judge-may-dis...

Those are lawsuits to invalidate patents not to sue other people for using their patents.

You asked for patent lawsuits initiated under Cook's CEO tenure. Words Mean Things.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#477

Post by xvector »

scarface74 wrote: post #413
d0gbread wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, that's exactly the goal. Antitrust laws need to be updated for today's technology and businesses.

And you trust the current politicians who were more concerned about Big Tech being unfair to conservatives than they were about antitrust. Did anything productive come out of the dog and pony shoe?

It is honestly frightening that HN wants to give the government more power over tech after what we've seen from Australia and forced backdoors.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#478

Post by Apocryphon »

scarface74 wrote: post #459
627467 wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my view, the percentages are not the biggest factors that lead to this situation (although it adds to the outrage when the monopolistic accusations are thrown around). The problem is: all of these big techs want to be a platform, and all of them sell (to their investors) the idea that their platform will be very profitable precisely because it will lock the participants inside a ecosystem hard to escape from. Appl…

Apple has been a platform since iPod+iTunes? Spotify also wants to be a “platform”. The creators get a far smaller percentage and they are locking up “podcasts” behind their “walled garden”

As discussed literally two comments above,

> And Spotify may well be target of investigation one day. They are also in the monopolistic platform business model.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#479

Post by oscargrouch »

chrisseaton wrote: post #455
oscargrouch wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't need to support, they just have no right to forbid. There's a big difference between those two things. Imagine if windows crippled Netscape by forcing them to use Internet Explorer engine on Windows? And this is just one thing Apple are doing that is unbelievable they are getting away with it.

But there's a specific consumer safety reason for it. Not letting other browsers use their own JS engine (which is what it means to 'forcing them to use Internet Explorer engine on Windows' in your analogy) is because Apple want to disallow write|execute for people's safety.

But if its because of safety, why only JavascriptCore VM allow write execute flag? If that was the real reason then, dont you think it should also be disabled in JavascriptCore?

Or the real reason, is as it was pointed out in the other comment, is to cripple other browser engines that offer a platform that could actually be competitive with AppleKit's turning their control over the App store (and what people are allowed to access according to their own taste) irrelevant?

And if that's the real reason behind it, its clear the end user best interests are not being taken into account, as in not having access to possible better options according to your own tastes, contrary to what a lot of people in the comments here are trying to make we believe its true.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#480

Post by Apocryphon »

scarface74 wrote: post #472
Apocryphon wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't distract from the fact that analogous third party apps in this category was wholeheartedly permitted on the App Store until Apple decided they wanted their own app in this space.

So because Apple once allowed spyware they should always allow spyware?

Well, they should have cracked down on that spyware earlier, and their failing to do so until they had a competing app to push both casts their motivation behind banning those apps as suspicious, and calls into question the supposed "quality" of the review process. At worst, they did it to Sherlock competitors. At best, they were negligent, their review process is overrated and does not do enough to protect consumers against spyware. It is on them to justify their poor timing.
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