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The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

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Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#131

Post by sanxiyn »

xenadu02 wrote: post #122
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

Many apps, if not a large majority, would start doing this. That destroys the convenience and user experience. If every app does this there isn't any consumer choice about it.

No, Android is an existence proof that this will not happen. Users in fact hate it, so apps mostly stick to in app purchases.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#132

Post by bwb »

sanxiyn wrote: post #112
bwb wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is their platform... maybe the gov can make this a legal monopoly like the NFL. And, everyone gets the same % rate, same rules, and no apple competition in apps. Same for Google...

It is NOT same for Google, and that's exactly the point.

How is their app store any diff?

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#133

Post by winter_blue »

xenadu02 wrote: post #122
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

Many apps, if not a large majority, would start doing this. That destroys the convenience and user experience. If every app does this there isn't any consumer choice about it.

Only because of the 30% cut. Very few apps would start doing it if the App Store took a cut similar to what Stripe takes.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#134

Post by matsemann »

coldtea wrote: post #39
IshKebab wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not what defines a monopoly. Ticketmaster can't just say "We're not forcing you to go to events - you could just sit at home if you want. Therefore we don't have a monopoly!" I would have thought that is obvious to be honest.

That would be the case if Apple, like Ticketmaster, had a controlling share of the mobile OS space. They have less than 30% though...

As an app developer, they have a large percent, though. And you cannot choose the phone your customers have.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#135

Post by Apocryphon »

moralsupply wrote: post #71
Apocryphon wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By not allowing alternate app stores, yes.

Apple doesn't have to support other stores. If users don't like that idea, they can simply not use Apple products. Users have a choice. If, however, you want to impose the support of other stores on Apple by the means of regulations, you're effectively supporting the use of the government's monopoly of force against a company that is building products that people are happy to pay a premium to buy products from (and t…

As a customer, I am happy with the potential for greater consumer choice. And as an app developer, I am happy with the potential for greater 3rd party dev leverage over the platform. In this specific situation, I am okay with exploring options involving the government monopoly of force to bring about potentially beneficial outcomes, when used against the most valuable company on the planet, for what will likely cost them relatively little downside. This is from a practical standpoint, not one involving schools of ideology wrt government power.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#136

Post by moogleii »

I'm guessing Apple's defense will be very similar to the author's own words, except a little less emotional:

> Apple is using its monopoly to hold all of us hostage

> Apple’s iOS controls 25% of the global smartphone market (the other 75%, is largely controlled by Google’s Android). This means that for over a billion people (particularly in the US where their market share approaches 50%), the only way to install apps is through the App Store. This gives Apple enormous influence over the way software is created and consumed around the world.

25% is indeed "enormous influence" but it's not a monopoly. It feeling like one isn't enough. The telcos in the States seem like a comparable example. There are three major players, so it's roughly 33% control for each (differs per region I'm sure).

With ISPs, it feels even worse. In most areas you can't even choose another provider with the same technology type (if you want fiber in my area, it's only Verizon. If you want cable, it's only Spectrum; DSL, AT&T; etc). But the rationale is, it's still internet at the end of the day, so I can technically choose.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#137

Post by BoysenberryPi »

matsemann wrote: post #127
BoysenberryPi wrote: post #63

Genuine question: Why does this matter? I see 0 problems with Apple having a "walled garden." It's their product and their platform so they should be able to decide what gets supported and developed for it. I personally don't like how Apple conducts their business so I just don't use Apple products and that's that.

I think the article explained that reasonably well. One example is that they also make their own apps, so you potentially have to pay your competitor 30% of your income which is more than your own margins. And then they surface their own app and hide your's. Cannot compete against that.

My issue with the article is that despite acknowledging that Android market share overall they are acting as if Apple is the only game in time. Maybe my thought process is just overly simplistic and I'm missing something because every time the app store gets brought up my general feeling is just don't use Apple. If enough developers abandon the platform they will be forced to change.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#138

Post by wayneftw »

CubsFan1060 wrote: post #110
MereInterest wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's my phone, and I can do whatever I want with it. If Apple doesn't like that, they can easily maintain ownership by not selling the device. I don't force Apple to sell iPhones instead of leaving them in a warehouse. Once I've bought it, it is mine. The entire idea that Apple can do whatever they want on a device that they have already sold is ludicrous.

I'm curious, if you didn't like the way it is, why did you buy one? None of these things are new. They've basically been the same since they came out. You largely had a choice of two products. It sounds like one did what you wanted, and one didn't. You bought the one that didn't and now you're unhappy about it. I don't quite understand that.

It doesn’t matter why I bought one. Car manufactures can’t just do whatever they want. They have to follow rules.

What’s wrong with people wanting Apple and Google to follow some rules?

Having a rule that all smartphones should allow sideloading would not be the end of the world for people who like Apple’s app store. Those people would still have the choice to us it.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#139

Post by Apocryphon »

xvector wrote: post #114
Apocryphon wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can say the same about Ma Bell, or Standard Oil. The pre-edited version of the original post asked the ludicrous question " So now we’re going to have governments design the software in our phones ", so he got a ludicrous answer in kind. But in theory, if Apple's control of the App Store platform constitutes a monopoly, it would not be gross government overreach to pursue antitrust, as it has done historically, e…

> if Apple's control of the App Store platform constitutes a monopoly, But it's not a monopoly. The vast majority of the "app store" ecosystem is the Play Store. Apple's "App Store" is a minority player. Otherwise you could arbitrarily divide any platform recursively until something is a monopoly in need of getting regulated.

The OP article argues that it is a monopoly. You are free to agree or disagree with its thesis. However, my statement was that "if Apple's control of the App Store platform constitutes a monopoly", then the government should have free rein to do so, as it has repeatedly done so in the past.

Re: The App Store is a monopoly: Here's why the EU is correct to investigate Apple

#140

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

xenadu02 wrote: post #122
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like someone will force you paying without your consent. If you don't want to give random apps your credit card, don't give it to them. Why do you oppose other people's right to do that, if they need it?

Many apps, if not a large majority, would start doing this. That destroys the convenience and user experience. If every app does this there isn't any consumer choice about it.

Perhaps, but Apple would still have an edge on tight integration with the OS resulting in a quick and frictionless user experience. If that wouldn't cut it for some developers, so they would bother themselves building a separate processing, well, then Apple would probably have to lower their fees.

Personally for me, as a developer of applications, I could care less about 30% fee. I find it reasonable. What I DO care about is restrictions on owning the device and users' inability to run any app they need - even if it is not vetted by Apple. In part it is because I happen to live in an authoritarian country which government loves to block apps in the AppStore.

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