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Remote First at Quora

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Re: Remote First at Quora

#41

Post by colmvp »

iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

It's definitely isolating but it's also a solvable problem.

Now that all my friends are working from home, we have more of a desire to meet on a weekly basis. We've been going on short after work hikes together regularly.

We also hold weekly zoom calls to play online board games or chat about what's going on in our lives.

Lastly, for people who have hobbies that still allow social distancing, you can still go to some meetups and have fun. My friend is still playing tennis / badminton and having her normal after match meal.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#42

Post by onion2k »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #13

Remote is the new cool word for off-shoring. Companies don’t decide to radically change their work structure just because it seems like a nice idea. If you expect tech companies to keep paying SV salaries after they shift to remote-first, you’re in for a rude surprise.

If you expect tech companies to keep paying SV salaries after they shift to remote-first, you’re in for a rude surprise.

This isn't really a problem though. The people who really benefit from SV salaries are SV landlords and realtors. If SV companies can pay a remote person 75% of the SV salary instead the company saves some money, shareholders get a bigger dividend, someone gets a tech job where they want to live (maybe on more than the local median), and that's good for everyone.

It's probably an absolutely devastating problem for SV landlords, but they've had it pretty good for a long time so they must have been able to see it coming eventually.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#43

Post by cpursley »

iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

> You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office.

I don't really understand this. While I like my colleagues, they're just that - co-workers. I'm never really been interested in socialising with them outside of the workplace.

I've moved to a new country and the way I've found friends (without even putting much effort into it) was through activities and shared interests outside of work.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#44

Post by zhdc1 »

D895n9o33436N42 wrote: post #30
iagooar wrote: post #10

Working remotely has a very high cost, but it only gets visible in the long term. Working from home isolates you. There is no way around this. You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. For the company, people that work remote start drifting away from the company vision and spirit - you get an army of people working individually most of the time,…

> You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. Eh, there’s enough anecdata to swing this in either direction. I have not grown up in the US, so I’ve truly started my social network from scratch when I began my professional career almost two decades ago. The people I’ve become friendly at work make poor friends. Perhaps my definition of “friend” is d…

It's not the social isolation as much as it is being disconnected from your work environment. There's a very real benefit (that varies a lot on individual circumstances) to being close to the flagpole.

This discussion reminds me of Richard Hamming's anecdote about open and closed doors: http://www.paulgraham.com/hamming.html.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#45

Post by a_imho »

black_puppydog wrote: post #15
a_imho wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would hesitate to take anything from the article at face value, they just align with whatever is trending, there is nothing more to it really. Do you expect them to say I would force every single one of my peons back into the salt mines if I could, but alas I can't for the time being ?

Which, depending on how you see it, is okay. I personally don't expect corporations to really have a consciousness. I expect them to react to outside stimulus, that's all. So if "we" make in unacceptable to say "come to the office or get lost" then they will accept that, no more, no less. That's okay with me.

Corporate hypocrisy is really not that serious issue in the grand scheme of things, but the asking for it justification is just victim blaming.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#46

Post by madeofpalk »

yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #4

It's amazing to me how many people and companies who have been forced to work remotely for the first time in their lives are suddenly the experts on it.

i think the views from a stalwart are actually kind of helpful.

imho "experts" on this probably arent going to be saying much unique or helpful for others in the industry who previously have been so resistent to remote work.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#47

Post by black_puppydog »

a_imho wrote: post #45
black_puppydog wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which, depending on how you see it, is okay. I personally don't expect corporations to really have a consciousness. I expect them to react to outside stimulus, that's all. So if "we" make in unacceptable to say "come to the office or get lost" then they will accept that, no more, no less. That's okay with me.

Corporate hypocrisy is really not that serious issue in the grand scheme of things, but the asking for it justification is just victim blaming.

sorry if that came across as blaming you... what I mean is that it's actually a pretty good thing in a way that corporations operate that way. If a sizeable proportion of workers/customers make it clear they will not accept something, it will be gone in a heartbeat.

Of course, there are (huge) exceptions for monopoly situations where there's simply nowhere else to take your work/money.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#48

Post by malechimp »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #13

Remote is the new cool word for off-shoring. Companies don’t decide to radically change their work structure just because it seems like a nice idea. If you expect tech companies to keep paying SV salaries after they shift to remote-first, you’re in for a rude surprise.

I was afraid of that myself -working somewhere in a middle-ground country. That my job would soon be offshored to a cheaper country in a race-to-bottom way. But then I started looking for a remote job and I was either ignored or turned down for people that were: 1. native speakers 2. remote but within reach 3. strong OS committers etc

I don't think that companies can offshore anything but the trivial tasks which you wouldn't want to do anyway. They're definitely after it and would love to but in my experience I don't see it happening. On the other hand you find yourself competing with very high quality devs from all English-speaking countries in the world.

Dunno. I guess we'll see how it plays out. Either way COVID seems to be driving things now and for foreseable future. Not much you can do.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#49

Post by D895n9o33436N42 »

zhdc1 wrote: post #44
D895n9o33436N42 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You lose the one huge opportunity in adult life for making new relationships - and that's at work, in the office. Eh, there’s enough anecdata to swing this in either direction. I have not grown up in the US, so I’ve truly started my social network from scratch when I began my professional career almost two decades ago. The people I’ve become friendly at work make poor friends. Perhaps my definition of “friend” is d…

It's not the social isolation as much as it is being disconnected from your work environment. There's a very real benefit (that varies a lot on individual circumstances) to being close to the flagpole. This discussion reminds me of Richard Hamming's anecdote about open and closed doors: http://www.paulgraham.com/hamming.html .

What happens when everyone’s work environment is the same across a given company? Doesn’t this level the playing field? Evergreen communication seems to specifically serve the goal of reducing or even eliminating the need to be “close to the flagpole”, as you called it.

Re: Remote First at Quora

#50

Post by 52-6F-62 »

zhdc1 wrote: post #40
TLightful wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And if you expect talent to seek out those companies, they're in for a rude surprise.

I think the OPs main point is that salary is as much a function of location as it is talent. Not everyone is fortunate enough to be able to move to Silicon Valley.

Prudent point. I'm sure my personal experience isn't an isolated case—I've had many opportunities to move to SV, LA, or Seattle areas for positions that paid 2-4x what I make where I am now but it would mean leaving everyone I know and love far behind, including my partner who has their own career.

So, even beyond being fortunate is the weight of what matters to oneself more.

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