Live data from Hacker News

A new funding model for open source software

vriad.com

141–150 of 184 posts

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#141

I expected Youtube Red to work like this. Each person has its own pool. Channels should have been weighed by watch time with a minimum weight so that small channels get something as well. If I watch one channel then that channel should get the whole $10 (minus youtube cut). Instead we got a stupid global pool based on global popularity that primarily benefits PewDiePie even if I don't watch him. The compensation was…

Can you link to an article or something about how YouTube Red's payment model works? I've always been curious.

Here you go[0]. Basically they're treating it like ad revenue, where each view nets you a certain amount.

[0]: https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6306276#YouTube_Re...

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#142
I'm going to offer users something if they sponsor the project by looking in the GraphQL data. Today there are no simple ways of just asking github: "for how much $ does user X sponsor user Y" and much less per project!

I think that is the only way to get open source revenue! Unfortunately that means you either need a service or some closed source part that guarantees that revenue.

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#143

I expected Youtube Red to work like this. Each person has its own pool. Channels should have been weighed by watch time with a minimum weight so that small channels get something as well. If I watch one channel then that channel should get the whole $10 (minus youtube cut). Instead we got a stupid global pool based on global popularity that primarily benefits PewDiePie even if I don't watch him. The compensation was…

I generally agree, though I'd say donated money should go to every sponsored individual/party equally by default, with donors able to set weights to recipients in their preferences.

Weighting videos on watch time, or GitHub sponsorship amounts based on number of repos, creates perverse incentives. High quality tutorial videos that get to the point and communicate ideas efficiently get less money than those with a minute-and-a-half intro and two minutes talking up a sponsorship at the end. Similarly, GitHub projects that are broken up into many repos, even needlessly, get more money. Same as the microservices hell that many software companies have faced when they drink too much of that koolaid.

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#144

I think that this essay is fundamentally brilliant, but doesn't come out and yell the self-evident truth: the ONLY way this ever takes off is if Github does it. And man, do I ever hope that they do. There's no other entity in the ecosystem that even approaches the role Github plays, with all due respect to Gitlab and the rest of the also-rans. It'd be wonderful if they did the same thing, but in the end, they are goi…

> the ONLY way this ever takes off is if Github does it.

I disagree. What this need is a popular, well known and trustable organisation with enough money to invest into this. Github could be this organisation, but other could do that to, like Mozilla for example, or the FSF, Patreon, Facebook, Apple, maybe even google if they can sell a vision of them not shutting it down 6 monts later.

What is needed is awarness of such an option. Which would work better of course when integrated into the platform. But patreon seems to have proofen that it's also possible to do this with external services.

Also a trustable institution to handle the money

And finally a decent interface to manage your sponsorings, which also means someone doing the work in the background to figure out whether a project accepts donations and how. Would be easy if the platform supports it somewhat automatically, but could also be done manually for projects on other platforms.

I would even go a step further and not limit this to open source projects, but the whole web. Add a simple button into the browser to allow sponsoring for the actual visited url. With some background-service which is smart enough to figure out whether the visited url is a project on github/gitlab/sourceforge, or a blog, a podcast, some content-company , a streamer, or some dude on twitter with something you wanna support.

And if nothing can found to support, an issue is created and the humans in the background will figure out how to support what you consider as supportable, and will inform you if something was found. And with time some schemas and APIs will grow so platforms will allow automation fof this.

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens if the transaction is fraudulent?

This might actually be the right question to ask, thanks for poking. :) From a customer's perspective, fraudulent transactions are handled in the best way possible. Here's Stripes docs on it [1]: > Customers can dispute a payment through their bank on a “no questions asked” basis up to eight weeks after their account is debited. Any disputes within this period are automatically honored. > After eight weeks and up to…

What you are describing here are SEPA direct debits. Many countries including the USA have a similar instrument. While it is free for the consumer from whom money is being collected, it is generally not free for the business that is collecting the money. So in that way, it is the same as credit cards, but the fee is a lot less.

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#146

OK my project is open source. I have zero stars, zero downloads, and zero users. How much do I get paid? Zero? But I wrote open source code that solves a real problem. It's open source. I should deserve to get paid. Because open source software. I don't think your funding model works.

You are absolutely right. Github popularity != usefulness.

There's plenty of crucial work that does not lead to any github star:

- Linux distribution work, including packaging, reliability, security

- Security research: finding vulnerabilities and notifying the authors

- Configuration, tuning, benchmarking, finding bugs...

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#147
Yet another model that has probably been never used on high scale: letting people sponsor tickets (GitHub issues). The donation would go to the contributor who closes the ticket to the satisfaction of the main contributors. The amount, of course, will be decided by how a ticket is perceived as important.

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#148
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the market value for most of these open source packages is $0. There's nothing about charging for software that goes against the spirit of libre software. (In the 2000s, Debian and Ubuntu made money by charging for CDs of the installers.) The reason these npm-type packages can't charge is that they're extremely fungible. Left-pad, react-router, etc. are trivial and nearly identical to the next one that is given…

> The reason these npm-type packages can't charge is that they're extremely fungible. I'd say it's less that they're highly substitutable (which I was I think you mean, instead of fungible) and more that they are non-excludable goods. A seller has no way to exclude a buyer from consuming opensource; that is in fact part of the definition . But without excludability, there's no incentive for a buyer to buy, other than…

> non-excludable

I think the term you're looking for is "public goods", which combines non-rivalrous and the author chooses not to exclude people through legal means.

Running out of time to comment before I need to get to work so I'll just link our economics page here: https://wiki.snowdrift.coop/about/economics

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Friend, you are going to be waiting for a very, very long time. In the meantime, every day OSS project maintainers get burned out, depressed, and often called mean names and there is no viable mechanism for them to get paid for it. CodeFund shut down, Flattr is not a significant player - I first heard of it in this thread. Frankly, the network effects of GH make them the only viable place for this to happen in the me…

I agree with all your points, but I'm still optimistic. The biggest two issues are that anything related to finances is heavily regulated, and that third-party services integrated into repositories/blogs/posts create lot of friction for users. It should come down to 1 button: donate fixed amount immediately. It's easy to press that button few times, or to press the button every time you update to new version. Simple…

Do you not see that the very thing that made GH a social hub for something that was previously totally disconnected is exactly what is required to push something like this anywhere close to a critical mass?

What other service is going to provide a consistent, trusted interface with payment details already stored that is so close to the projects that you're using?

Maybe the npm registry... oh wait. :P

Seriously, if what you want was going to happen, it would have happened by now. There isn't another force on the planet today that could make even a small dent.

Re: A new funding model for open source software

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm cognizant that I'm replying to someone named CaptArmchair. Based on your handle, I say: well-named. Look, I'm sure you remember the heartbleed scenario a few years back... the moment when we all realized that the human behind one of the most critical pieces of our infrastructure stack was a slave to his sense of responsibility, but he lacked charisma and hustle and social presence such that he wasn't able to keep…

Hm... that's not at all what I intended to convey. And I think you're putting things in quite extreme terms. The field of software / digital engineering has grown an exploitative side. This is absolutely true. To be crystal clear, without diving into detail and derailing the thread: I find this evolution reprehensible and not how humans ought to be treated. Is that dynamic then the result of Open Source as a princple…

You're making some good, if aspirational points, but I'm still not convinced. After all, artists have had patrons for a long time. The gallery system is a relatively new invention.

Do I believe that artistic creators are a net-win to society? 100% Do I wish that artistic professions were seen as worthy of support? Yes I do. But in actual today reality, most artists can announce that they are doing a show, staging a production, what have you, and make some money.

I would argue that the only way for someone to approximate this in 2020 as a developer of creative but not economy-driving things is for Github to adopt a pool as described by the OP.

One thing I want to be really clear about is that people shouldn't support projects with lots of stars just because they have lots of stars. Stars are a passible metric for evaluating which tool to choose, perhaps. But I think the power of the pool concept is that Github could hit you up when you git clone, or maybe even occasionally ping you with a "hey, are you finding this useful? consider adding it to your pool". Or how about opt-in reminders like "hey, you're about to add your 80th project to the pool, but at $80 pledged that would put your contribution below $1 for each project. no shade intended, but how cool would it be if you kept your pool >$2/project? it'll be the best value for $160 this month."

Post reply on HN