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The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

calvertjournal.com

81–90 of 187 posts

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#81
USSR invented "internet" in terms of internal military network, but it had nothing in common with public packet-switching networks like in the West. Such networks were build in USSR only in late 80s - early 90s, some of them by western companies.

Even PSTN was unreliable, mostly analogue, SS7 was never implemented on 99% of intercity links.

Glushkov never produced any working model of his "network", they had no protocols, no software, no hardware.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#82
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat related, Netheads vs. Bellheads https://www.wired.com/1996/10/atm-3/ I briefly worked at a place fully dominated by Bellheads early in my career. They were bemoaning IP and holding on to ATM stuff as late as 2001. I'm told that the last of their tribe (after I left) fought off VoIP as a passing fad well into the 2000s.

Hard to believe this was nearly a quarter century ago. T he references are getting dated: > "How do you scare a Bellhead?" he begins. "First, show them something like RealAudio or IPhone. Then tell them that right now performance is bandwidth-limited, but that additional infrastructure is being deployed." > … > One result is undergrads who, for $29.95 a month, clog up the Internet with CU-SeeMe sessions.

The article is dated 1996. How does it have an IPhone reference?

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#83
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somewhat related, Netheads vs. Bellheads https://www.wired.com/1996/10/atm-3/ I briefly worked at a place fully dominated by Bellheads early in my career. They were bemoaning IP and holding on to ATM stuff as late as 2001. I'm told that the last of their tribe (after I left) fought off VoIP as a passing fad well into the 2000s.

Hard to believe this was nearly a quarter century ago. T he references are getting dated: > "How do you scare a Bellhead?" he begins. "First, show them something like RealAudio or IPhone. Then tell them that right now performance is bandwidth-limited, but that additional infrastructure is being deployed." > … > One result is undergrads who, for $29.95 a month, clog up the Internet with CU-SeeMe sessions.

The apparently out of place reference to the iPhone in this article from 1996 is actually referring to the IPhone, one of the first internet appliances.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#84
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's extremely anti-soviet, almost propagandistically so. It wouldnt be out of place as a work made at the request of Voice of America, although the author is an Englishman.

Shocking that a regime in which, "the communist leaders of the Soviet Union were responsible for no fewer than 15 million deaths." could be painted in a bad light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_...

To paint a government in a bad light is one thing. To rob its citizens of their humanity is another. A bad writer thinks they're equivalent.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#85
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see how magic advanced computer power would solve the problem of economic calculation in the socialist commonwealth. Without prices there is no efficient distribution of resources.

The same way they do so within a single sufficiently large corporation, and the same way the market utterly fails in such a situation. See https://www.versobooks.com/blogs/4385-failing-to-plan-how-ay...

Private companies are interested in getting real statistics, it was not like that in USSR. Even on largest auto-factory (AvtoVAZ) programmers were creating software with intentional bugs, so they can fix it later, during pre-programmed outages and get some bonuses. No one was interested in sending real statistics to Moscow, from head of local shop to head of large factory.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#87
post #28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soviet bureaucracy wanted to transform Quite the opposite: soviet bureaucracy didn't want to transform anything, they were more concerned with maintaining the status quo for as long as they could. This is why the system turned out to be too rigid to withstand the pressures of the modern world. On the other hand, think about how much the planned economy would benefit from the wide-spread automation and access to mod…

What would planned economy do with hands not needed anymore? :) Even with totally unproductive economy, USSR had lots and lots of bullshit jobs just to keep people employed. What would USSR do with tons of unemployed people? Create fake jobs? Or what... let people find out what they'd like to do and let them start private initiatives?!?

I read a while ago that in communist society there is usually a shortage of everything including labor (that also why females were encouraged to work soon after giving birth)

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#88

It would have been so cool if the USSR had its own internet and shared it with China and China were still running it now because wouldn't it be great to stop hearing about how people think firewalling the entire Chinese IP space will keep hackers out. Also a parallel internet built on something other than TCP/IP would promote competition to see which internet design is technically superior. But realistically nobody w…

Having used early Soviet computers - before they gave up on trying to design anything and just copied or used Western schemes - I can say the USSR internet would definitely be different but there's no way the design would be technically superior but for some improbable accident.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#89
IMHO the project was doomed from the start. Top down design on a scale that massive and distributed is nightmarishly complex, and when the designer is well ahead of the state of the art like this it doesn’t stand a chance.

ARPANET by contrast started from the bottom and worked up. This is crucial because it makes it easy to iterate on the design until you get it right. With a top down design mistakes get baked in and become nearly impossible to correct.

Re: The Soviet web: the tale of how the USSR almost invented the internet (2017)

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“In Italy for thirty years under the Borgias they had warfare, terror, murder and bloodshed but they produced Michelangelo, Leonardo da Vinci and the Renaissance. In Switzerland, they had brotherly love; they had five hundred years of democracy and peace and what did that produce? The cuckoo clock.” - Orson Welles, The Third Man, 1949 Ancient Greece was also exceptionally politically unstable and yet produced the fou…

Meanwhile, Switzerland got a three-peat of Nobel Prizes in Medicine in 1948, 1949, and 1950. It makes sense that a guy like Welles would value art and throw scorn on technology. Stability is necessary for investment and the build-up of capital; it isn't necessary to make a painting.

Meanwhile, Switzerland got a three-peat of Nobel Prizes in Medicine in 1948, 1949, and 1950.

Assuming Nobel prize work is likely a decade or more in the making, I'm thinking all their European competition was busy trying to stay alive?

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