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Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

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Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#271

Post by hajile »

tharne wrote: post #147
badrequest wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I can't possibly think of a single method of dealing with coyotes that isn't an AR-15. Until that specific model of firearm was invented, people just sort of let coyotes eat their chickens, as there was nothing they could possibly do. They couldn't use humbler firearms with less capacity for committing mass shootings, they just let their chickens die.

You don't know much about firearms based on your response. An AR-15 is a high-powered rifle that has a lot of stopping power even at long range and is very accurate - that's why my buddy had one. It also doesn't have the spread of a shotgun, which is important if you need to shoot a coyote that's too close to your chickens -- you don't want to fire a round of buckshot and take out a bunch of your chickens in the proc…

AR-15 isn't high powered. It's not considered suitable for hunting many types of game in many states.

30-06 was introduced in 1906 (the -06 bit) to fix the 30-03 (making it a hair shorter and a lighter 150 grain spitzer "pointy" bullet instead of the 220 grain round nose). The result was faster, lighter, and a flatter trajectory at a weight of around 27 grams per cartridge (I don't know the weight of the 30-30, but I think around 30 grams is probably accurate).

The 7.62x51 went down a little to 147 grain, but shaved almost a half inch off the length reducing weight to around 24 grams at a somewhat minor expense of velocity, range, and impact strength (very few people could make use of the extra range and power in combat).

The first 5.56x45 was all about reducing size. 55 grain bullet was a fraction of the size while the overall length dropped by almost 3/4 of an inch resulting in around an 11.5 gram cartridge (the 62 grain version adds another half gram or so). The effective range dropped dramatically and kinetic energy was cut in half, but once again, very few people can shoot that far in combat and the kinetic energy was deemed sufficient (though that's debated by some soldiers today). Double the ammo for the same weight is a much more important metric for the army.

It's a good cartridge for a lot of things, but it's the weakest rifle cartridge the US army has ever used and probably the weakest intermediate cartridge used in any army in the world.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#272

Post by pluto9 »

saas_sam wrote: post #132
jonahbenton wrote: post #128

Am sure this will be downvoted but just commenting that I find discussion in these threads fascinating, terrifying, fundamentally foreign. Having lived in large cities all my life I cannot conceive of owning a gun, or of other nearby city dwellers owning guns, or even being allowed to in a non law enforcement capacity. There are apartments in NYC with working fireplaces- seems almost equally insane to me, though gun…

For those of us who grew up around guns, your abject horror at an object is as puzzling as someone being terrified of knives or slingshots. Would be nice if cops were all good and could teleport to your location in time of need. Drive an hour outside your city of choice and that ain't gonna happen. Just sharing my own experience, cheers.

They often won't show up in a timely manner in the city, either. I once called them because I had broken up a fight and one of the people involved ran back to his apartment to get a pistol and was out in the parking lot with his friends searching for me, pistol in hand.

There was a police station less than a mile away and it took them 45 minutes to arrive. No doubt they intended to let events play out however they may and then roll in and take statements, which is their only actual legal obligation.

That incident really drove home for me exactly what I'm not getting for my tax dollars.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#273

Post by pluto9 »

christiansakai wrote: post #228
saas_sam wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For those of us who grew up around guns, your abject horror at an object is as puzzling as someone being terrified of knives or slingshots. Would be nice if cops were all good and could teleport to your location in time of need. Drive an hour outside your city of choice and that ain't gonna happen. Just sharing my own experience, cheers.

Why do most developed nations don't let citizens own guns then?

I've never understood the "most developed nations _______" argument. So what? "Most" parties doing something doesn't make it the right choice. In any other discussion this would be rightfully called out as an "appeal to the majority" fallacy.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#274

Post by AdrianB1 »

badrequest wrote: post #235
AdrianB1 wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AR15 is a lighter, lower powered gun than your typical hunting rifle; the energy of a .223 bullet is a lot lower than a .30. The capacity is almost irrelevant, changing multiple mags is no problem for anyone with decent training. I am the kind of guy that loads only 5 rounds in each 10 round mag (sport shooting), so changing mags is as natural as firing the next round. People telling that "high-capacity overpowered m…

I'm fully in favor of making bolt-actions the only legal form of firearm.

Don't underestimate the Mauser Kar 98, it is a lot more lethal than an AR15, it is bolt action and a good shooter is very effective with it. I really don't understand the impression that low-capacity, low-speed action rifles are protecting anyone from a bad guy with bad intentions; it is not.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#275

Post by pluto9 »

HelloNurse wrote: post #258
AmVess wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CNC machines do the bulk manufacturing. In high end shops, gunsmiths do the final finish work. It used to be that high production firearms still had gunsmiths overseeing production. Now, in places like Remington, firearms come off the machines and get put right into the box. A range friend of mine is on his 3rd new Remington 700. He sent the original new unit back and they shipped him a new one. It was defective, he…

So the problem is mostly lack of quality assurance, rather than an intrinsically bad product? With proper quality control, where would the Remington 700 fall in the scale from cheap to average to good? Is it overpriced, or technically inferior, or strange, compared to the competition? It's interesting because removing people who inspect shotguns is quick, easy and relatively reversible, while declining product qualit…

The Remington 700 is an excellent platform and used to be highly regarded for precision rifles. It was the basis of both the US Army and Marine Corps' bolt-action sniper rifles for many decades (M24 and M40, respectively). Remington's manufacturing quality has just gone downhill in recent years.

There are other manufacturers that still make them to a high standard. I'm not sure whether they're licensed copies or just clones, but I recently heard someone joke that "these days everyone makes a great Remington 700 except Remington".

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#276

Post by Rebelgecko »

hajile wrote: post #271
tharne wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't know much about firearms based on your response. An AR-15 is a high-powered rifle that has a lot of stopping power even at long range and is very accurate - that's why my buddy had one. It also doesn't have the spread of a shotgun, which is important if you need to shoot a coyote that's too close to your chickens -- you don't want to fire a round of buckshot and take out a bunch of your chickens in the proc…

AR-15 isn't high powered. It's not considered suitable for hunting many types of game in many states. 30-06 was introduced in 1906 (the -06 bit) to fix the 30-03 (making it a hair shorter and a lighter 150 grain spitzer "pointy" bullet instead of the 220 grain round nose). The result was faster, lighter, and a flatter trajectory at a weight of around 27 grams per cartridge (I don't know the weight of the 30-30, but I…

There was a Washington Post article a few years ago that referred to a Ruger 10/22 (which shoots .22LR) as a "high powered rifle". By all means keep trying, but I've found that efforts to inject facts into the gun control debate are often poorly received. Folks have their preconceived notions, and it's easiest to just cling to them.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#277

Post by pluto9 »

LyndsySimon wrote: post #57
chmod600 wrote: post #14

What is the larger significance here? Does this mean the gun industry is struggling? Sounds unlikely given the spike in purchases. Maybe it's just another old company that once had a good reputation but has lost its way. PE probably involved. Or maybe there is some market shift. Like, fewer hunters purchasing lever actions and more urbanites buying semi-auto pistols.

Remington tried to pivot into the semi-auto handgun market with the R51. It’s a good design, but one that doesn’t mesh well with modern manufacturing techniques. They pumped a ton of money into getting it to market, and they just couldn’t make it profitable.

I'd never heard of the R51, but after Googling it...good lord. I'd never buy it just based on its appearance. It looks more like a hot glue gun than a pistol.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#278

Post by novaleaf »

snapetom wrote: post #230
jonahbenton wrote: post #128

Am sure this will be downvoted but just commenting that I find discussion in these threads fascinating, terrifying, fundamentally foreign. Having lived in large cities all my life I cannot conceive of owning a gun, or of other nearby city dwellers owning guns, or even being allowed to in a non law enforcement capacity. There are apartments in NYC with working fireplaces- seems almost equally insane to me, though gun…

As a very pro-2A gun owner, I'm upvoting you and hope at least people stop downvoting you. Downvoting this comment, which in no way attacks other people or their points of view, goes against the spirit of HN. Save that crap for reddit. Back to your comment, though, I grew up in the San Francisco suburbs. I have pretty much lived in either metropolitan suburbs or urban center of medium sized cities. I never even shot…

I'm pro 2nd Amendment, but anti-gun. With the equipment a modern military has at it's disposal, I fail to see how the right to own small arms is going to help keep our government in check.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#279

Post by FireForce »

SEJeff wrote: post #212
rsync wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Among people I know who track modern firearm technology I don't know a single person who would even contemplate buying a Remington." Anecdotal, but we needed several workhorse .308 rifles and even considering the previous issues with the Rem 700 triggers, etc., I still chose that model. In addition to being a simple mechanism and easy to clean and maintain, it has a very high adoption rate which means parts and chas…

The remington precision is also at an incredible price point for a longer range rifle compared to much of its competition.

Are you referring to the RPR? If so, that's made by Ruger, not Remington.

Re: Remington Arms Declares Bankruptcy

#280

Post by rascul »

novaleaf wrote: post #278
snapetom wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a very pro-2A gun owner, I'm upvoting you and hope at least people stop downvoting you. Downvoting this comment, which in no way attacks other people or their points of view, goes against the spirit of HN. Save that crap for reddit. Back to your comment, though, I grew up in the San Francisco suburbs. I have pretty much lived in either metropolitan suburbs or urban center of medium sized cities. I never even shot…

I'm pro 2nd Amendment, but anti-gun. With the equipment a modern military has at it's disposal, I fail to see how the right to own small arms is going to help keep our government in check.

> I'm pro 2nd Amendment, but anti-gun.

I'm a little confused, aren't those positions a bit contradictory? I would be interested in reading a bit more of your views here.

> With the equipment a modern military has at it's disposal, I fail to see how the right to own small arms is going to help keep our government in check.

After seeing various militaries (is that the right word?) fight for the last 19 years in Afghanistan (and spending some time there myself), it seems to me that availability of superior weapons and equipment isn't the only factor.

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