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The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

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Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#111

Post by pi-rat »

x87678r wrote: post #98
pi-rat wrote: post #12

Very interesting, the Zoe is all the way back on 7th place here in Norway (more than 50% of all new cars here are electric), I wonder why there's a big difference compared with "mainland Europe".. Of all time: Leaf, Golf, i3, model S, Soul, Model 3, Zoe.. In 2020: E-tron, Golf, Leaf, Kona, Model 3, Soul, Zoe. Could be because Zoe is a picky charger. It's made to AC charge on TN power nets, and Norway has quite a bit…

> In 2020: E-tron, Golf, Leaf, Kona, Model 3, Soul, Zoe. Wow to me this is bigger news, Tesla is #5 on the list.

I expect them to be higher by the end of the year, I think it’s just how their large delivery batches line up.

Tesla M3 (LR) was the most sold car of any type (ICE and EV) in Norway last year.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#112

Post by Decade »

em500 wrote: post #103
throwaway0a5e wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NYC parking prices, California gas prices (and possibly California registration costs depending on country), European tax rates, and "safety" inspection programs (that mostly just increase the cost of operating old, cheap cars), combine to provide a hefty financial incentive for people in Western Europe to take the bus/train.

> California gas prices Most European drivers would be thrilled with California gas prices: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/gas-prices/

Hopefully they are too socially responsible to be “thrilled” with that.

American gas prices and vehicle fees are scandalously low, too low to pay for upkeep of car infrastructure, let alone to pay for the externalities of driving and of burning fossil fuels.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#113

Post by [deleted] »

neuronic wrote: post #67

Anecdote time: I am driving a Zoe multiple times a week and thoroughly enjoy it. Is it premium class car and will take me 600km? No, but that's not why I am driving Zoes. I drive them because it's short city commutes 99% of the time. Rarely more than 10-15km, usually transporting something or bypassing public transport in busy times/Corona/if car is just quicker. I use them via Sixt Share, a car-sharing service. Alwa…

[deleted]

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#114

Post by thatfrenchguy »

maeln wrote: post #16

It's honestly not a surprise. The European market favor smaller car way more than the American one. You just have to see the sheer number of 206, Twingo & Clio on the road. I still see some Tesla, but usually it is a status symbol, people who just want an electric car usually go for the Nissan Leaf or the Renault Zoe.

Gas is expensive in the EU and cheap in the US, that’s why.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#115

Post by Mvandenbergh »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #57
xiphias2 wrote: post #45

Model 3 is great in the US, but here people prefer BMWs because of more service locations and much better service (we can get new parts easily from Germany, don’t need to wait for parts from the U.S.), and pay extra costs from importing from outside E.U. The Berlin factory will help with all of these problems.

From what I hear, for the same price range BMWs, Mercedes, etc. are also much better quality than Teslas.

In terms of quality of finish and materials, yes. But those are status differentiators rather than functional differences and the Tesla brand name has a status all of its own so they appeal to people with slightly different preferences around status signalling.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#116

Post by thatfrenchguy »

namdnay wrote: post #71
maeln wrote: post #16

It's honestly not a surprise. The European market favor smaller car way more than the American one. You just have to see the sheer number of 206, Twingo & Clio on the road. I still see some Tesla, but usually it is a status symbol, people who just want an electric car usually go for the Nissan Leaf or the Renault Zoe.

One of the reasons for that is that cars are cheap in the USA, in the absolute and even more relative to incomes. The cheapest RWD model 3 starts at 50k euros - that's unaffordable for 99% of french families. To give a very simplified but realistic stereotype: An upper-middle class family od two software engineers + 2 children will probably have one "premium" family car for sir (e.g. VW Golf or 3008) and one city car…

The price you see in the US is always before taxes and registration fees. In CA those are easily 10% on top

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#117

Post by dalys »

codeulike wrote: post #9

The new 52kwh Zoe is pretty good, £25k for 200+ mile range. Probably the cheapest 200+ mile EV in Europe right now. The Tesla Model 3 is comparatively expensive due to importing. Cheapest Model 3 on the website is £40k. We're not even getting the Model Y until they build the german factory.

And that Tesla Model 3 price is not even so bad. The cheapest Model 3 (Standard Range Plus) here in Sweden is £50k/€55k/$65k.

The base Zoe, with the 52kWh battery, is £30k/€33/$39k.

I recently bought my first car and would've loved to go electric, but nothing with decent battery size and boot size in my budget yet. I got a Passat GTE Sportswagon for now. All trips inside Stockholm I can drive on pure electric so I'm still quite happy.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#118

Post by jjcon »

Krasnol wrote: post #22
bryanlarsen wrote: post #7

Tesla Europe numbers are wildly variable. Tesla tends to build their European cars at the beginnning of the quarter so that they can be shipped across the ocean and into customer hands before the end of the quarter. The cars at the end of the quarter are shipped to Americans and the cars built in the last week are shipped to Californians. So because of the COVID shutdown, that means that the only month that Tesla mad…

I don't think there will be many who decided to buy a Zoe because a Tesla wasn't available. It's the price. I doubt there is much overlap with the ID3 too. The cheapest model will cost you two Zoes.

(Non car person here) How much does the Zoe run vs the model 3? I know they are very different cars but the model 3 without bells and whistles seems pretty affordable for most people.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#119

Post by bhauer »

Krasnol wrote: post #22
bryanlarsen wrote: post #7

Tesla Europe numbers are wildly variable. Tesla tends to build their European cars at the beginnning of the quarter so that they can be shipped across the ocean and into customer hands before the end of the quarter. The cars at the end of the quarter are shipped to Americans and the cars built in the last week are shipped to Californians. So because of the COVID shutdown, that means that the only month that Tesla mad…

I don't think there will be many who decided to buy a Zoe because a Tesla wasn't available. It's the price. I doubt there is much overlap with the ID3 too. The cheapest model will cost you two Zoes.

Maybe not much cross-shopping, but since we're talking simply about total units delivered, it's not relevant whether any single consumer is cross-shopping the two options. What's relevant is whether the consumers for each are able to have their demand satisfied.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#120

Post by FartyMcFarter »

Theodores wrote: post #90
mytailorisrich wrote: post #2

In the UK a Renault Zoe is about 30% cheaper than a Tesla Model 3 and is smaller and more urban. I.e. more in line with most cars you see everywhere in Europe. It is also possible to lease the battery instead of buying it along with the car, which seems to be a popular option (although it seems they've removed the option, apparently).

The UK also has London with the congestion charge. EVs are exempt from the £15 per day charge. That works out at a £3750 'saving' over 50 5-day weeks in a year. Combine that with the incentives to buy an electric car, finance schemes to spread payment and the benefits of EV (lower fuel price) and you wonder why more people in the suburbs are not buying EVs. Sure you see some but not that many. Money is not the proble…

> That works out at a £3750 'saving' over 50 5-day weeks in a year.

Since the congestion charge is only for central London, this assumes people are driving into the very centre of London every day, which I don't think many people do. Certainly not most people who live in London suburbs.

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