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Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

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Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why ballroom and not Tango? I find Tango pairs much more naturally to martial arts.

Ballroom is 10 dances which means 10 times the variety of music to dance to. Also our outfits are way fancier. :-p

It was a bit of a setup, ;) this is the answer I was looking for!

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else already pointed out that this is actually quite significant, just the time might have been too short but there is clear indication something is there. For me the key question is: what is the key ingredient (or the right mix of ingredients)? E.g. is it having a programme to follow (having aims/duties is known to increase longevity, see the famous 'plant study')? Or rhythmic fluid movements (so like tai ch…

I would guess the main driver for brain stimulation is the coordinative aspect of dealing with many motor skills over different body parts doing different things, while also coordinating the rhythms and cadence of music in your mind. So the more coordinated the movement (ballet, flamenco), the more stimulated. There's also the component of memorizing sequences. In this respect, yoga is also very fruitful. Many tradit…

> "I would guess the main driver for brain stimulation is the coordinative aspect of dealing with many motor skills over different body parts doing different things, while also coordinating the rhythms and cadence of music in your mind. So the more coordinated the movement (ballet, flamenco), the more stimulated."

Interesting that you mention flamenco [1]. I started dancing flamenco 8 years ago, at age 42. I am a late starter to dance, which is a polite way of saying I actively avoided it for most of my life.

When I started, I could barely put together a half-dozen steps. And if I tried to add arm, hand or head movements, my feet went out of time. My brain just didn't feel big enough There was no way I could remember even a tiny section of a choreography like this one I link to from Marco Flores.

Yet as I got more experienced, my brain gradually adjusted to think of body movements as integrated flows, not individual motions. It learnt how to "chunk" them together into logical sequences, and how they align to a piece of music. Much to my surprise, I can now remember complex choreographies several minutes long.

My next challenge is to internalize all of this, so I can relax and dance more comfortably. Maybe I'll never get good enough to improvise dancing with a guitarist and singer. But looking back, I am thrilled how far I've come.

[1] Since few people here will be familiar with flamenco, here is a clip of Spanish dancer Marco Flores performing a Seguiriya: https://youtu.be/ajVmaj6Z93o?t=397.

Notice how Marco beats out what appears a chaotic rhythm with his feet, yet it keeps coming back to the strict beat clapped out by the singer. If you try to follow along, note the rhythm here has a 5-beat bar: 1-and, 2-and, 3-and-a, 4-and-a, 5-and. So the 1, 2 and 5 are short, and 3 and 4 are long.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would guess the main driver for brain stimulation is the coordinative aspect of dealing with many motor skills over different body parts doing different things, while also coordinating the rhythms and cadence of music in your mind. So the more coordinated the movement (ballet, flamenco), the more stimulated. There's also the component of memorizing sequences. In this respect, yoga is also very fruitful. Many tradit…

> "I would guess the main driver for brain stimulation is the coordinative aspect of dealing with many motor skills over different body parts doing different things, while also coordinating the rhythms and cadence of music in your mind. So the more coordinated the movement (ballet, flamenco), the more stimulated." Interesting that you mention flamenco [1]. I started dancing flamenco 8 years ago, at age 42. I am a lat…

Hey! Yes, flamenco is well considered a complex musical instrument of percussion, much like a Jazz drummer could make complex patterns and improvise. Hope we get to dance together someday on some improvised street somewhere in the world! The great thing about flamenco is that, even though it's almost or quite involved like ballet (the national ballet in spain trains top ballet dancers to combine flamenco dance in choreographies), it's something you can start much later and also have a longer career into your seniority (keeping your wits about and Alzheimer's well away).

Also, some versions of the opera Carmen has almost an hour-long flamenco part, it's worth watching, a good french opera.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#215
post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similarly, contradance (though that's much more limited to the US).

What is contradance? Do you have any experience you’d like to share?

The English country dance tradition in the USA evolved into contradance (corruption of "country dance"). It diverged in the 18th century when English country dances were almost entirely longways dances, so there are only a few squares formations left, almost vestigial. Then in English the whole explosion when the quadrille arrived from France and began hybridizing with English country dance happened, and then the waltz... Meanwhile in the USA, contradance continued on without that influence. Though they later picked up the waltz, and a contradance today conventionally ends each half of the dance with a waltz, the first of which you conventionally dance with someone not your significant other and the second you dance with your significant other if you have one.

Contradance is where I tend to start totally new dancers. The community tends to be extremely welcoming. Most dances have an expectation that experienced dancers will spend at least part of the evening dancing with newcomers and trying to get them up to speed and comfortable. Once they've got the sense of weight and motion, then you can drag them off to swing, ballroom, or whatever else, but it really is an incredibly effective setting for instilling some fundamentals and confidence.

It's also interesting because you can go from Virginia to Washington state and walk into a contradance and wonder if you traveled at all.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#216
post #62
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would disagree, dance requires an intimate letting go, while sports is a more mechanical shutting down. Dance is a sort of trance, and requires alot of letting go. Sports has a goal, has focus, its very “in the head” (exceptions do exist ala japanese arts, martial arts comes close but not as it is largely implemented in the west.) Not saying no brain plasticity work takes place, but dance has an active emotional el…

Dance is a sort of trance, and requires alot of letting go I know what you mean, also when you talk about that certain tenderness, I have experienced that, and I can get that same thing out of sports like climbing/bmx/snowboarding. Take climbing: slowly reaching for a difficult hold you've never touched before, where you carefully lay your fingers on it, just touching it at first to make sure it'll actually hold you…

The trance like aspects aren't really what it's about with dance. Sports/martial arts/yogas are great, but the whole point of TFA is that dance is different. The others have all sorts of strengths, so it's a little puzzling to me why the argument would be made "yeah but sports too!" Nobody's criticizing sports here, and the implicit argument here that "naah, dance can't be special" is not based on fact and kind of off-topic.

Having studied a little modern dance, being a sw dev and bicycler, lifelong musician, and a pilates fanatic -- dance absolutely has more for the brain/body/emotional/spiritual connection. It's kind of the whole deal and it is unique this way.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone else already pointed out that this is actually quite significant, just the time might have been too short but there is clear indication something is there. For me the key question is: what is the key ingredient (or the right mix of ingredients)? E.g. is it having a programme to follow (having aims/duties is known to increase longevity, see the famous 'plant study')? Or rhythmic fluid movements (so like tai ch…

May I ask what the “plant study” you are referring to is?

Sorry for not being more clear, I meant Langer's classic study. A critical/write-up here:

https://www.coyneoftherealm.com/2014/11/05/re-examining-elle...

Langer gave houseplants to two groups of nursing-home residents. She told one group that they were responsible for keeping the plant alive and that they could also make choices about their schedules during the day. She told the other group that the staff would care for the plants, and they were not given any choice in their schedules. Eighteen months later, twice as many subjects in the plant-caring, decision-making group were still alive than in the control group. To Langer, this was evidence that the biomedical model of the day — that the mind and the body are on separate tracks — was wrongheaded.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#218
I agree. In case of physical exercise, the mind does not need to apply itself. But in case of dance, you have to think about your next move. But sports can surely be a money earner for many. source: https://wpbizblog.com/how-to-start-a-sports-blog/

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is contradance? Do you have any experience you’d like to share?

The English country dance tradition in the USA evolved into contradance (corruption of "country dance"). It diverged in the 18th century when English country dances were almost entirely longways dances, so there are only a few squares formations left, almost vestigial. Then in English the whole explosion when the quadrille arrived from France and began hybridizing with English country dance happened, and then the wal…

Contra is now pretty popular amongst folkies in the UK (well, England, anyway). Ceilidh (around the UK) is the wander-in-and-give-it-a-go thing, less taxing and more energetic than contra, and should be very welcoming and age-blind. (Less chance of throwing a whole set if you get it wrong, and typically less intricate.) I guess with most genres you'd feel at home joining in somewhere else. The big long festival of folk dance/music in England should have been happening from this weekend. There's plenty of video of Sidmouth Folk Week on youtube^Winvidio.us if anyone's interested, though more of the displays than the social dancing.
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