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Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

journals.plos.org

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Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#151

Post by nelaboras »

hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

Someone else already pointed out that this is actually quite significant, just the time might have been too short but there is clear indication something is there.

For me the key question is: what is the key ingredient (or the right mix of ingredients)? E.g. is it having a programme to follow (having aims/duties is known to increase longevity, see the famous 'plant study')? Or rhythmic fluid movements (so like tai chi or qi gong or yoga)? Or the combination with music (multimodal stimulation)? Or the social component of dancing (so e.g. encouraging proximity like mutual hair brushing, engagement that encourages touch, etc)?

Fascinating and raises many new questions. But it's clear the most deadly thing is probably inactivity.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#152

Post by lottin »

eigenhombre wrote: post #147
cik2e wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are just a few examples of sports that require continuous attention from your entire body in response to an external stimulus: Snowboarding, downhill skiing, mountain biking, and any martial art. These are from personal experience, I’m sure there are plenty of other examples. Even weight training, which is an experimental group in this article, when done properly, requires high levels of neuro-muscular coordinat…

> Every rep that’s done mindfully affords a unique learning opportunity. Could you suggest a source on this? One that presents this sort of approach to resistance training, ideally for relative newcomers?

Check out Starting Strength: Basic Barbell Training by Mark Rippetoe and Lon Kilgore.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#153

Post by pteraspidomorph »

Johnjonjoan wrote: post #3
didibus wrote: post #2

Hum... Now this makes me wonder if VR games could achieve a similar effect, such as Beat Saber. Since VR games could combine physical and mental activity into one.

I'd be inclined to think beatsabre is repetitive. Dance often involves moving your body in ways you haven't before or rarely do whilst beatsabre is pretty much different variations of the same move. I believe activating a relatively new pathways is vastly different to activating a relatively old one in terms of brain plasticity; which is why I don't think there is much promise with this particular game. Edit: when I…

Beat Saber does have a very large amount of patterns, though. If you restrict yourself to the best designed maps, you're likely to find a unique feel to each. It does feel a lot like dancing, although, yes, it's a style of dancing that benefits from your body already knowing the basic positions.

I seem to recall some of the best custom mappers are specifically into dancing/choreography, but don't quote me on this; I don't know how to validate this information (maybe someone from the community will read this and be able to confirm).

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#154

Post by didibus »

Johnjonjoan wrote: post #20
didibus wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure it's the repetitiveness of the physical activity that is the issue, though could be. The way I'm interpreting it, I read it as you need to combine physical activity with sensory and cognitive tasks. Which dance provides. Beat Saber is repetitive in the physical movement, but constantly challenges you in the sensory and cognitive department.

I do think your point that the physical repetitiveness isn't the only factor is correct, however I believe it is the main driver. Almost all physically repetitive exercises combine sensory and cognitive tasks to varying extents. I would also argue that learning and implementing new movements is a much more diverse task cognitively than getting better at beatsabre.

I can see learning dance coreographies still being better than Beat Saber for sure. I just think a lot of normally suggested activities don't really involve sensory and cognitive aspects, like walking, jogging, cycling, swimming. So compared to those, I could see something like Beat Saber possibly having better success, which is where I feel it becomes interesting, because most people would naturally assume that picking up a game like Beat Saber wouldn't be any good and it be best you'd start swimming.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#155

Post by saryant »

virtue3 wrote: post #132
cosmojg wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whereabouts are you? Are there any festivals you'd recommend in particular?

Lindy Hop? In the states the biggies are: Camp Hollywood (lotta pool time, lotta drinking) Lindy Focus (christmas -> new years, it's nuts) Nevermore (my personal favorite) Camp Jitterbug (used to be super relevent as the contest weekend event, sorta on the decline/ not sure) Lindyfest has some nice peeps at it Camp the biggest is Herrang in sweden, it's the lindy hop mecca trip. Also check out: https://www.swingplani…

I would not recommend a beginner start at Camp Hollywood. It’s a bit intense.

Lindy on the Rocks in Denver is usually pretty good. There’s a huge swing dance community in the Front Range.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#156

Post by didibus »

cik2e wrote: post #115
networkimprov wrote: post #52

I've been a dancer for 30 years, of many forms. The best way I can describe dancing to non-practitioners is that it's like playing a silent, wearable musical instrument that demands attention from your entire body. It is not like playing a sport, except perhaps if you do it competitively :-)

Here are just a few examples of sports that require continuous attention from your entire body in response to an external stimulus: Snowboarding, downhill skiing, mountain biking, and any martial art. These are from personal experience, I’m sure there are plenty of other examples. Even weight training, which is an experimental group in this article, when done properly, requires high levels of neuro-muscular coordinat…

The control group was doing the following:

> Each session included three different units: endurance training, strength-endurance training and flexibility training. Each unit lasted 20 minutes. The endurance training was performed on bicycle ergometers with the intensity adjusted to the individual training heart frequency. The strength-endurance unit implied training with equipment such as barbells, rubber bands, Redondo balls, gymnastic sticks and fitness balls. We avoided combined arm and leg movements in order to keep coordinative demands low.

So ya, they did try and keep coordinative movement to a minimum by avoiding full body movements. That said, I'm not convinced that that any weightlifting, which can be administered to elderly people, would ever reach the coordinative demand and sensory/cognitive levels that dance does.

Also, something that doesn't improves an elderly's brain plasticity doesn't mean that weight lifting or other more repetitive form of exercise are not beneficial in any other way. Brain plasticity is not the be all and end all of health. I think strength training has an already well established level of other health benefits, brain plasticity might not be one though.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#157

Post by didibus »

lrmunoz wrote: post #136
cik2e wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here are just a few examples of sports that require continuous attention from your entire body in response to an external stimulus: Snowboarding, downhill skiing, mountain biking, and any martial art. These are from personal experience, I’m sure there are plenty of other examples. Even weight training, which is an experimental group in this article, when done properly, requires high levels of neuro-muscular coordinat…

I don't know why this comment got downvoted. I personally thing there is so much truth in it. I practice Olympic lifting (total beginner) and I have to concentrate so much during exercises. Take for instance the snatch movement [1] which is my personal favorite and one of the hardest (in my opinion) Also I find weightlifting very addictive: when you do the movement successfully is very rewarding. When you get it wron…

Okay, but how much you find it addictive, and how much you feel you need to concentrate doesn't mean it'll improve brain plasticity in elderly people. In this study, they did a form of strength training and it didn't improve brain plasticity nearly as dance.

So I mean, it's hard to have someone just come in and say: "nope the data is wrong my opinion of this activity I am biased towards as I practice it myself is right", and not be somewhat skeptical. Yes, this is a small preliminary study, maybe the type of strength training was responsible for the failings, etc. But it's still much more substantial then someone's opinion.

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#158

Post by robbrown451 »

xdavidliu wrote: post #112
hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

> The latter finding may indicate that cognitive benefits may develop later and after structural brain changes have taken place." I'm confused by this part. How does the "latter finding" indicate that benefits may develop later? The "latter finding" is that there hasn't been any benefits yet. Does that suggest anything whatsoever about what will happen later?

I suspect they meant the former finding, i.e.: "volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex"

Re: Dance is superior to repetitive physical exercise for brain plasticity (2018)

#159

Post by mudita »

nelaboras wrote: post #151
hannob wrote: post #50

Looking at this: "Dancing compared to conventional fitness activity led to larger volume increases in more brain areas, including the cingulate cortex, insula, corpus callosum and sensorimotor cortex. Only dancing was associated with an increase in plasma BDNF levels. Regarding cognition, both groups improved in attention and spatial memory, but no significant group differences emerged. The latter finding may indicat…

Someone else already pointed out that this is actually quite significant, just the time might have been too short but there is clear indication something is there. For me the key question is: what is the key ingredient (or the right mix of ingredients)? E.g. is it having a programme to follow (having aims/duties is known to increase longevity, see the famous 'plant study')? Or rhythmic fluid movements (so like tai ch…

The authors of the studies seem to believe that the "combination of physical activity and sensory enrichment" and “cognitive and coordinative demands” are the key ingredients.

If this is the case then the results should also generalise to sports, which have an aspect of sensory enrichment and coordinative challenge.

But I agree with you, it would be very interesting to actually find out what the “key ingredients” are. Especially since dance is so diverse and difficult to define. In fact, I think the category of dance can be best described using Wittgenstein's concept of family resemblance. There is not one essential common feature between all forms of dance, instead there are a lot of overlapping aspects.

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