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The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

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Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#21

Post by mytailorisrich »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #13
mytailorisrich wrote: post #2

In the UK a Renault Zoe is about 30% cheaper than a Tesla Model 3 and is smaller and more urban. I.e. more in line with most cars you see everywhere in Europe. It is also possible to lease the battery instead of buying it along with the car, which seems to be a popular option (although it seems they've removed the option, apparently).

A Zoe is a nice city car that sells well but only as a second car. It does not compete with the Model 3 which does replace ICE vehicles as a main car. You simply wouldn't do a cross-country trip in a Zoe -- say, from Belgium to the French Riviera -- so most families would need another vehicle (ICE, PHEV or long-range & fast charging Tesla). They just don't share the same market. EV compete with ICEs alternative more…

Many people have Zoe-sized cars as their main car. People rarely do cross-country trips. I'm not sure I would buy an EV at all if I were planning Belgium to South of France trips.

But even as a second car, the segment Zoe caters for is exactly the best one for EV in Europe, IMHO.

It seems to me that at the moment Teslas are for wealthy people who want to display "Tesla cool" more than a practical choice.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#22

Post by Krasnol »

bryanlarsen wrote: post #7

Tesla Europe numbers are wildly variable. Tesla tends to build their European cars at the beginnning of the quarter so that they can be shipped across the ocean and into customer hands before the end of the quarter. The cars at the end of the quarter are shipped to Americans and the cars built in the last week are shipped to Californians. So because of the COVID shutdown, that means that the only month that Tesla mad…

I don't think there will be many who decided to buy a Zoe because a Tesla wasn't available. It's the price.

I doubt there is much overlap with the ID3 too. The cheapest model will cost you two Zoes.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#23

Post by izacus »

noja wrote: post #3

and it's not a Leaf!

It's actually surprisingly hard to buy a leaf here - Nissan isn't a popular brand. Renaults are everywhere though - Clio is one of the most popular cars outside DACH region and Zoe being is its electric counterpart.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#24

Post by mytailorisrich »

michaelt wrote: post #17
chrisseaton wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who needs the complication of a battery lease Who needs the complication of owning a big battery?

I can understand someone leasing the entire car, battery included. And I can understand someone buying a car outright. What I can't understand is why someone would want to buy a car outright, but still end up paying a lease on the battery. To me, that doesn't have the benefits of either option.

People have been worried about EV's batteries in terms of lifespan, loss of charge, maintenance, etc. The option to lease the battery was a way to alleviate that worry, IMO.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#25

Post by Reason077 »

tonyedgecombe wrote: post #5
mytailorisrich wrote: post #2

In the UK a Renault Zoe is about 30% cheaper than a Tesla Model 3 and is smaller and more urban. I.e. more in line with most cars you see everywhere in Europe. It is also possible to lease the battery instead of buying it along with the car, which seems to be a popular option (although it seems they've removed the option, apparently).

The battery lease is what put me off, when I looked there didn't seem to be an option to buy it outright.

Renault no longer offers “battery lease” Zoes:

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/renault-ends-bat...

In any case, for many years you’ve always had the option to buy a non-lease (“i”) Zoe for a somewhat higher price.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#26

Post by cerberusss »

pi-rat wrote: post #12

Very interesting, the Zoe is all the way back on 7th place here in Norway (more than 50% of all new cars here are electric), I wonder why there's a big difference compared with "mainland Europe".. Of all time: Leaf, Golf, i3, model S, Soul, Model 3, Zoe.. In 2020: E-tron, Golf, Leaf, Kona, Model 3, Soul, Zoe. Could be because Zoe is a picky charger. It's made to AC charge on TN power nets, and Norway has quite a bit…

I think you guys are richer, to be honest.

Edit: I replied too fast. I looked it up on Wikipedia and the "purchasing power parity" isn't all that different between, say, Netherlands and Norway. So I can't really explain it.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#27

Post by TLightful »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #14
TLightful wrote: post #4

Not surprised - the Zoe is just a nice little everyday car ... not trying to be too much, just get the basics right of what a nomal driver needs. I'm in the market for an EV next year and, if the competitors haven't stepped up their game, I'll get one. No way will I buy a Tesla. Extremely bored of their brand and their online cult - very excited for alternatives. You can take your 0-60 and ... :)

Would the Zoe be your only car? Do you plan to do cross-country trips? If not, what would you consider other than a Tesla for long range trips (ignoring branding/marketing for a second)?

Ideally, yes. I live in London and 97% of my journeys would be there.

An example, "normal" cross-country trip for me to, say, Bristol, is just over a 100 miles. Well within the Zoe's range.

Anything crazy-further as a very one-off, and maybe I'd rent an ICE for the weekend. (edit: although someone just mentioned the 10%-80% charge time being just an hour ... fine by me!).

As said, the Zoe would be on my radar if the competitors don't step up. But I've heard about quite a few alternative EV released in 2021.

The Polestar 2 looks great. id.3 is fine. Hopefully Kia impress ... will be on the look out for others.

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#28

Post by _Microft »

izacus wrote: post #23
noja wrote: post #3

and it's not a Leaf!

It's actually surprisingly hard to buy a leaf here - Nissan isn't a popular brand. Renaults are everywhere though - Clio is one of the most popular cars outside DACH region and Zoe being is its electric counterpart.

DACH is Germany (D), Austria (A), Switzerland (CH) by the way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_distribution_of_G...

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#29

Post by rcMgD2BwE72F »

room271 wrote: post #15
rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A Zoe is a nice city car that sells well but only as a second car. It does not compete with the Model 3 which does replace ICE vehicles as a main car. You simply wouldn't do a cross-country trip in a Zoe -- say, from Belgium to the French Riviera -- so most families would need another vehicle (ICE, PHEV or long-range & fast charging Tesla). They just don't share the same market. EV compete with ICEs alternative more…

An alternative that a lot of people do is rent a car just for holiday, as it ends up cheaper. Or just get the train and rent on arrival.

I'm a Parisian who have never owned a car, so that's what I've always done.

But there are just no EV to rent anywhere in France. The ones you you find on Getaround, Ouicar or other peer to peer renting sites cannot actually be rented (owners always reject the inquiry upon request -- probably a trick by the website operator to get people to at least request some cars and get an ICE anyway).

Re: The Electric Car Atop Europe’s Sales Charts Isn’t a Tesla or VW

#30

Post by raxxorrax »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #14
TLightful wrote: post #4

Not surprised - the Zoe is just a nice little everyday car ... not trying to be too much, just get the basics right of what a nomal driver needs. I'm in the market for an EV next year and, if the competitors haven't stepped up their game, I'll get one. No way will I buy a Tesla. Extremely bored of their brand and their online cult - very excited for alternatives. You can take your 0-60 and ... :)

Would the Zoe be your only car? Do you plan to do cross-country trips? If not, what would you consider other than a Tesla for long range trips (ignoring branding/marketing for a second)?

Family of mine drove from northern Germany to Greece (don't know where exactly) in an E-Tron last year. It was a 2 day trip, but they said it was very chill. They could recharge in about 15 minutes (to 80%?), don't know the exact range between trips, but it was considerable. Would have taken 2 days with a conventional car as well, maybe just a little bit faster.

Now, for business trips in rush hours it would probably be another story.

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