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Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

montreal.ctvnews.ca

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Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#301

Post by dsd »

happytoexplain wrote: post #284
earthscienceman wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is such an important point. It's going to go against the grain at hackernews, but taxing churches in the US is a terrible idea. If you wanted to further the divide between the "liberal city"/"conservative rural" American cultures, this would be a great way to do it. If you grew up in a rural area of the flyover states you would know that churches form the backbone of these rural communities. For example, the chu…

>It's going to go against the grain at hackernews I really wish people didn't do this. I agree with your post, but it's preemptively combative to make the first thing you say, "you're going to disagree with me." It makes you sound like you're trying to present yourself as an underdog in the face of a monolithic enemy.

I agree. I'm here because I like being part of a community where folks are balanced and measured and without outrage culture.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#302

Post by legolas2412 »

felipelemos wrote: post #169
legolas2412 wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP but a fellow atheist. Let me provide my opinion. You'll find racists and bigots in any group, but religions explicitly promote the supremacy and truth value of one over the other, and is a source of racism and bigotry. Unlike say, a board game club.

Are you sure you are not talking about the current US government?

Why is it when you criticize religion then all religious apologists come along? It's even bi-partisan. Criticize Christianity and right wingers come with whataboutism and criticise Islam and left wingers are angry.

If I criticize Nazi white supremacy philosophy of formenting hatred, do you come with a similar excuse of how human tribal nature will find a different means for formenting conflict, or how the British empire was also racist.

Is my point of criticizing religion in any way related to your snark about the Trump administration?

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#303

Post by nojvek »

earthscienceman wrote: post #43
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

This is such an important point. It's going to go against the grain at hackernews, but taxing churches in the US is a terrible idea. If you wanted to further the divide between the "liberal city"/"conservative rural" American cultures, this would be a great way to do it. If you grew up in a rural area of the flyover states you would know that churches form the backbone of these rural communities. For example, the chu…

Should a non profit foodbank not get the same treatment as a church?

Churches can be opposed to abortion or same sex marriage. At the same time care for the needy. However also sometimes be biased at only serving the needy that they think need to be served.

I think that’s the main issue here. If churches are non-profits, treat them like other non-profits.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#304

Post by mattmanser »

keiferski wrote: post #123
mattmanser wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to religion, America is the (massive) exception. My local church, that drives 10,000s of nearby resident crazy by ringing it's bells, had 3 people attending last time I stuck my head in. 3. People only use it for weddings, christenings and Christmas. They're not been a part of the community for decades.

Well, actually, Europe is the main exception to the rest of the world. America is in-line with most of Africa, the Middle East, Asia, India, and South America in that religion still plays a major role in everyday life. In fact, religions are growing, not shrinking, worldwide.

Perhaps I should have been more clear, America is the exception of the wealthy countries that can afford extensive education. What might have previously been commonly called first-world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_and_religion#/media/Fil...

See how the US is an outlier?

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#305

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

wolfhumble wrote: post #211
rational_indian wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel these things should exist without God. That is, they can be helpful to non-believers too. But I am having a hard time creating secular versions of these. I think the root of the problem lies in the fact that God here is an abstract entity with whom the believer communicates but no such abstract entity exists for non-believers (duh!). May be some form of general artificial intelligence can fulfil this role in t…

The purpose of being a Christian is to love God and to love your neighbour as yourself. In if you wonder how far the love of your neighbour stretches, the goalpost has ben set at the very end: Love your enemies.[See: Mark 12:30-31 and Matthew 5:44] And this follows and is natural because God is LOVE [1 John 4:7-21]. I have a hard time believing AI will fulfil this role. For would it be optimized for gains here and no…

What about all the people who are considered "sinners" ? There's no love for them in the Bible

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#306

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #270
enaaem wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Churches provide much more than just money. Solace, peace, love, community etc... I'd say this is more important than money. I used to be a Christian. There are a lot of bad sides of Christianity and that is why I left. But it does help many people and after studying Buddhism I understand how the right approach to Christianity can bring a lot of peace to believers: Unconditional love. Many people grew up made to feel…

Not only that, but the idea that we should have some sense of mercy, grace, forgiveness, etc that even permeates secular society. It’s an important value, and we’re seeing it break down as mobs of allegedly grown adults harass strangers for decades-old off-color remarks made as children, or for remarks made by family or acquaintances, or etc. I think Hitchens said that he didn’t like Christianity, but it may have bee…

I'm sure Hitchens was against all dogmatic religions and ideologies.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#307

Post by Galaxeblaffer »

danielheath wrote: post #125
Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me sad that anyone would compare religion to a pacemaker, if this is true then your country surely is lost

I’m pretty fiercely atheist, but the churches around me are where the local homeless get food and a reprieve from the cold. If you closed that today and diverted the money to a secular replacement, there would be a pile of bodies by the time it was operating.

You don't find it strange that so many people are homeless ?

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#308

Post by DuskStar »

Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #305
wolfhumble wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of being a Christian is to love God and to love your neighbour as yourself. In if you wonder how far the love of your neighbour stretches, the goalpost has ben set at the very end: Love your enemies.[See: Mark 12:30-31 and Matthew 5:44] And this follows and is natural because God is LOVE [1 John 4:7-21]. I have a hard time believing AI will fulfil this role. For would it be optimized for gains here and no…

What about all the people who are considered "sinners" ? There's no love for them in the Bible

I feel like you must have never read the bible, or even interacted much with a christian, to say this.

EVERYONE is a sinner. That sin is then forgiven.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#309

Post by dungdongdang »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #266
dungdongdang wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then they need to close down and move. if i buy a house for 20k and when I retire the property values are sky-high and the property taxes, which pay for things like roads and schools are too much for me to afford, i have to move. the people giving money to churches to attend that church, should pick up the cost of going to that church. which includes property taxes. if they are not willing to pay for that, it's their…

> the people giving money to churches to attend that church, should pick up the cost of going to that church. which includes property taxes. if they are not willing to pay for that, it's their problem. excusing churches from these taxes puts the burden for the church not on its members, but on everyone. Your whole premise here is that property taxes should be considered part of the cost of attending church (your firs…

umm, no I don't. everyone pays taxes by default. it is you who needs to say something more persuasive than churches should not pay taxes because they are churches.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#310

Post by dungdongdang »

CodeShmode wrote: post #205
dungdongdang wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

then they need to close down and move. if i buy a house for 20k and when I retire the property values are sky-high and the property taxes, which pay for things like roads and schools are too much for me to afford, i have to move. the people giving money to churches to attend that church, should pick up the cost of going to that church. which includes property taxes. if they are not willing to pay for that, it's their…

Yeah, same with that useless ymca and that donated community garden.

correct.
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