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Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

montreal.ctvnews.ca

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Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#151

Post by gscott »

onetimemanytime wrote: post #117
hrktb wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A solution to this is to give back the land to the local city and have it handled as cultural heritage, with an authorization to practice religious activities at specific times, but it’s governed by local administration overall. That’s how some cathedrals are managed in europe for instance.

A better solution is to keep it as it is. It has survived millennia. It's their land and states can renege their promises.

American Indians know that state and federal govt is honest to a fault!

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#152

Post by HPsquared »

neya wrote: post #94

Churches are one of the biggest business entities in any part of the world. Most churches are structured like a proper business entity (Eg. they have equivalent of directors, CEOs and managers) and have revenue targets and KPIs set. Most churches are also located in some of the prime real estate of top tier cities and I always wondered how they were able to afford paying $1500+/Sq.M in a prime, central area. About th…

Well... The government has managers, KPIs, prime real estate etc as well - is it a business too?

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#153

Post by gscott »

Galaxeblaffer wrote: post #101
moralestapia wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Or maybe create a system where people don't have to rely on churches and rich people for charity. Grow up, there is no utopia and whatever works already is better than nothing.

Yeah, let's just give up on making the world a better place. We might never reach Utopia, but we can for damn sure get closer especially if we free ourselves from dogmatic thinking. Do you really want to settle for better than nothing?

[flagged]

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#154

Post by drdeadringer »

ggggtez wrote: post #38
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

> where people connect with the spiritual world In the USA, this is quickly becoming an obsolete understanding of religion. Regular church attendance is down from 70% to just over 50% in the last 20 years, according to Gallup. People are leaving the churches. The real question is what will replace them. If people need community, build community centers. There are other solutions that do not rely on continuing to prov…

> If people need community, build community centers.

Granted I've always been the last person to know where the party is and still don't know where to buy weed in a state where it's legal if it hit me in the face, but what I do know is that if I ever wanted to meet people the last two places I would go to is the local community center and church like it's 1971. In my experience, joining a hospice social club would be an equally bright experience.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#155

Post by Cantbekhan »

Slightly off topic but I think it would be interesting to observe the German example as I think it's a good "fair" system.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_tax#Germany

" The church tax is only paid by members of the respective church. People who are not members of a church tax-collecting denomination do not have to pay it. Members of a religious community under public law may formally declare their wish to leave the community to state (not religious) authorities. The obligation to pay church taxes ends once such a declaration has been made. Some communities refuse to administer marriages and burials of (former) members who had declared to leave it. "

In many European countries, everyone (community member or not, believer or firm atheist) has to pay full taxes to pay for the churches/synagogues and mosques. Including the salary of priests. This in addition of them also not being taxed due to their special status.

Despite not living in a theocracy, many are forced to participate directly in a cult that might be of zero interest to them.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#156

Post by fastball »

juskrey wrote: post #135
ranman wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I was raised by a famous “pastor” who traveled around and “preached” to both receptive and dismissive congregations across the US. I experienced more churches than most people. I’m telling you this whole Christianity thing is a scam. sudo apt-get remove religion It’s a mental cancer.

Look, you were raised by fraudster, to begin with, and have seen only fraud. The whole Western modern humanism (which we like so much) is based on Christianity.

Much of humanism can be traced back to a single idea, the "golden rule". The golden rule pre-dates Jesus by a fair margin.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#157

Post by hunta2097 »

TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #130
forgotmypw17 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not just about the amounts, but the time tax, and the effort tax. Maintaining tax records is not zero-effort.

It's not exactly high effort either. If a business can afford to build a megachurch and run TV campaigns to fill it, it shouldn't have a problem finding the time/money to file a fucking tax return. I'll happily to make an exception for any church that is truly run as a genuine non-profit charity, and most income really is spent on good work in the community - not on investments and buying really nice things for the p…

The Catholic church has also claimed over $1.4bn in PPP loans too.

I would find that especially galling.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#158

Post by legolas2412 »

donatj wrote: post #129
Smaug123 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Give me 20 minutes with your congregation and I’ll find the racists and bigots. I can do better than that: I can do that with any group, not just a church congregation!

I was about to make this comment exact comment. It is OP who is delusional about the world around him.

Not OP but a fellow atheist. Let me provide my opinion.

You'll find racists and bigots in any group, but religions explicitly promote the supremacy and truth value of one over the other, and is a source of racism and bigotry. Unlike say, a board game club.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#159

Post by brohee »

ben_w wrote: post #145
wernercd wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you'll replace Christianity with what? Another religion? Atheism? Other religions have the same problems and Atheism is its own religion - requires faith to believe. Humans are religious beings... you won't get rid of it by only focusing on the negative aspects of your own experiences.

> Atheism is its own religion - requires faith to believe. Atheism is two (or more) different things. It is both the active belief in the non-existence of any God, and also the passive lack of any belief in any God. It’s not like I have to have active faith in the non-existence of Quetzalcoatl to have no interest in worshiping that deity. And I’m saying this as someone who went from Catholicism via Wicca to something…

> It is both the active belief in the non-existence of any God, and also the passive lack of any belief in any God.

The second one would be agnosticism.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#160

Post by simonh »

neya wrote: post #94

Churches are one of the biggest business entities in any part of the world. Most churches are structured like a proper business entity (Eg. they have equivalent of directors, CEOs and managers) and have revenue targets and KPIs set. Most churches are also located in some of the prime real estate of top tier cities and I always wondered how they were able to afford paying $1500+/Sq.M in a prime, central area. About th…

So churches should be taxed because they use effective organisational structures and are well run? That’s a new one. You could say the same of well run charities.
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