Montreal is taxing churches (2017) • Hacker News Board

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#271

Post by seesawtron » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:24 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #253

seesawtron wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's the complete guideline: "Most stories about politics, or crime, or sports, unless they're evidence of some interesting new phenomenon" Did you purposefully leave out the full sentence? I would argue it is/was a new phenomenon. Nevertheless, would like to hear why you think HN should be exempt from political discussion anyways? We see thought-provoking discussions here each day. This is one of the positive aspe…

Yes, hackernews will never pass up the opportunity to discuss highly divisive content that will cause community drama. Let's post about rent control while we're at it and really set off some flamewars.

I thought you were against censorship as your bio says:

"Censors have never been on the right side of history. If you support censorship, consider that you may be advocating evil."

If this was a sarcastic bio, then forgive me for misunderstanding.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#272

Post by james412 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:37 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #267

james412 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are we supposed to be looking at here?

Russian Orthodox priests in Romania and Bulgaria are absolutely terrible. They prey on a gullible and very poor population while living in opulence and flaunting their wealth. In Bucharest, Romania, they are currently building a church to the tune of 100 million euros. https://balkaninsight.com/2018/11/23/heavy-price-tag-oversha... 70% or more of that came from public funding, essentially tax payer money rerouted to…

Meh.. I find it difficult to care too much on a site whose population regularly fawn over a billionaire who stands to make billions more, largely due to booking sale of taxpayer-funded carbon credits to his company's most recent quarterly earnings as profit.

People around the world have different value systems and tolerances. For me it's impossible to consider state-funded excesses of the church without drawing comparisons to the likes of Musk. As for their relative social benefit, that's another topic entirely..

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#273

Post by cjmcqueen » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:39 PM UTC

ranman wrote: post #97

Everyone commenting about how great churches are? You’re absolutely delusional. The gross majority of these organizations are bigoted and racist. I grew up in the southern United States and experienced all manner of churches. I don’t care how great your church is. Give me 20 minutes with your congregation and I’ll find the racists and bigots. These assholes promote terrible mental and physical health. They don’t beli…

That sounds like a lot of anger Ranman.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#274

Post by throwaway894345 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:41 PM UTC

Barrin92 wrote: post #265

throwaway894345 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China aside given that it's an authoritarian state I much prefer the control the state has over the church here in Germany, because it eliminates virtually all religious sectarianism and has led to the church having adopted teaching and a curriculum that is largely in line with the basic constitutional law and secular values rather than existing outside of it. The picture you paint of government control over religi…

Diversity is a good thing, that's not changed. But diversity doesn't mean 'anything goes'. There's boundaries in a civil society for a reason. Religious practice is fine but withholding a secular education from children or ditching modern medicine, or attacking the rights of women or exercising corporal punishment isn't. I don't see how having the ability to put a stop to it is authoritarian, at least not any more th…

> Religious practice is fine but withholding a secular education from children or ditching modern medicine, or attacking the rights of women or exercising corporal punishment isn't.

Fair enough. That’s not what I thought you meant by “keeping religious orgs in line with state secular views” or whatever. Even still, you don’t need state control over religion to achieve those ends, and indeed in the US where the state is constitutionally prohibited from interfering with religion, these things aren’t problems (at least not to any reasonable interpretations).

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#275

Post by abellerose » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:50 PM UTC

AdrianB1 wrote: post #228

abellerose wrote: post #35

My whole life was destroyed by religion. I suffered conversion therapy and could never get on hormone blockers young; because of the nonsense faith results in from people with authority over administering a medical treatment. As an adult I'm now trying every year to afford surgeries I cannot afford while my peers save for homes. Also parents disowned me and I have ptsd from the physical & mental abuse. Nice to see re…

I am an atheist, but I don't understand your blame on religion.

How so? Do you need more detail from me or do you think people denying others of medical treatment because of their religion isn't deserving blame on religion. Do you have any idea why conversion therapy existed at all? I find your statement about being an atheist irrelevant a well. I'm agnostic and I find atheists to be just as irrational compared to religious people. You cannot prove their is a god and similar to proving there isn't a god. I do prefer how doctors that are atheist don't deny medical treatments for patients because of their religious beliefs.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#276

Post by jacquesm » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:53 PM UTC

james412 wrote: post #272

jacquesm wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Russian Orthodox priests in Romania and Bulgaria are absolutely terrible. They prey on a gullible and very poor population while living in opulence and flaunting their wealth. In Bucharest, Romania, they are currently building a church to the tune of 100 million euros. https://balkaninsight.com/2018/11/23/heavy-price-tag-oversha... 70% or more of that came from public funding, essentially tax payer money rerouted to…

Meh.. I find it difficult to care too much on a site whose population regularly fawn over a billionaire who stands to make billions more, largely due to booking sale of taxpayer-funded carbon credits to his company's most recent quarterly earnings as profit. People around the world have different value systems and tolerances. For me it's impossible to consider state-funded excesses of the church without drawing compa…

Those have pretty clearly stated profit aims. Churches, not so much.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#277

Post by readarticle » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

dmitriid wrote: post #264

readarticle wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which church?

Mostly Southern Baptists and Evangelicals. Have you been blind to politics in the past few years? From forcing intelligent design into schools to full assault against planned parenthood etc.

I don’t live in, or generally care about the deep south where the Southern Baptist and Evangelical churches apparently share control of the state, so in a sense yes.

I thought you were talking about the USA as a whole, my mistake.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#278

Post by BrandoElFollito » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 1:59 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #267

james412 wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are we supposed to be looking at here?

Russian Orthodox priests in Romania and Bulgaria are absolutely terrible. They prey on a gullible and very poor population while living in opulence and flaunting their wealth. In Bucharest, Romania, they are currently building a church to the tune of 100 million euros. https://balkaninsight.com/2018/11/23/heavy-price-tag-oversha... 70% or more of that came from public funding, essentially tax payer money rerouted to…

This is the same in Poland.

The recent elections confirmed the conservative direction of the country, fueled along others by the catholic church.

The good thing is that religion is not compulsory anymore. There used to be a time where not bring part of the church meant beung a real outcast.

This included the communist rulers who were quick to chistianise their children because otherwise they wild have hell in the family.

That was acually not bad as the church balanced the state.

Now they are omnipotent, and this is also the reason more people can be outside of church - because church is not unanimously seen as a savior anymore. Quite the opposite in the ranks of 30-50 yo people.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#279

Post by xbmcuser » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 2:05 PM UTC

earthscienceman wrote: post #43

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

This is such an important point. It's going to go against the grain at hackernews, but taxing churches in the US is a terrible idea. If you wanted to further the divide between the "liberal city"/"conservative rural" American cultures, this would be a great way to do it. If you grew up in a rural area of the flyover states you would know that churches form the backbone of these rural communities. For example, the chu…

Well why is a countries system so broken that you need these churches to do charities.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#280

Post by james412 » Sun, Jul 26, 2020, 2:08 PM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #276

james412 wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh.. I find it difficult to care too much on a site whose population regularly fawn over a billionaire who stands to make billions more, largely due to booking sale of taxpayer-funded carbon credits to his company's most recent quarterly earnings as profit. People around the world have different value systems and tolerances. For me it's impossible to consider state-funded excesses of the church without drawing compa…

Those have pretty clearly stated profit aims. Churches, not so much.

Your complaint was about use of public money:

> they are currently building a church to the tune of 100 million euros.

> 70% or more of that came from public funding, essentially tax payer money rerouted to build this monstrosity, something the country really can not afford.

In Tesla's case, $428m of public money contributed almost one third of all profits made by the company in a single /quarter/, at a time when the dollar's future as a reserve currency is being called into question due to panic spending to support a system on the brink of collapse.

The trick will likely qualify it for inclusion in the S&P 500, making it further eligible for more of that sweet public money over winter, as the current administration discusses that index's performance as an explicit target on an almost weekly basis.