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Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

montreal.ctvnews.ca

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Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#191

Post by ajdlinux »

hestefisk wrote: post #150
ajdlinux wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know about the US tax system, but at least in my experience here in Australia, not every expense incurred by a business or partially-taxed non-profit is necessarily deductible. For example, I formed a company with some friends for the purpose of work on a single contract, and the expenses we incurred in incorporating the company were only deductible at a rate of 20% per year over 5 years, so we ended up havin…

That’s depreciation on capitalised assets. Churches would like have very few assets that depreciate apart from buildings.

Capital expenses, not depreciating assets.

In any case, my broader point is that tax law for businesses and other taxable organisations is not as simple as "we didn't make a profit and therefore pay no tax this year", and therefore as someone who isn't a qualified tax accountant, I can't really say with much accuracy what impact particular changes to tax law are going to have on the overall financial position of an organisation like a church.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#192

Post by non-entity »

ranman wrote: post #97

Everyone commenting about how great churches are? You’re absolutely delusional. The gross majority of these organizations are bigoted and racist. I grew up in the southern United States and experienced all manner of churches. I don’t care how great your church is. Give me 20 minutes with your congregation and I’ll find the racists and bigots. These assholes promote terrible mental and physical health. They don’t beli…

Eh, I'm mostly torn these days. On one hand, as I also grew up (and for now currently reside in) the southeast, I've seen relgion bring out and be used to justify the absolute worst in people.

On the other hand, I've seen it anchor people and bring g out some of the best. I've seen and met people, who by all means have the right to be depressed, bitter, angry, etc. but maintain an attitude of forgiveness and happiness I can barely begin to comprehend.

I suppose on an individual level it can be very good, but I remain wary on religion as an institution.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#193

Post by Normal_gaussian »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

damn right they get a bad rap.

With no to little reporting requirements American churches are the ultimate fraud machine for the use of an exclusive and nepotistic section of society.

Spin it out as a series of regular companies/charities, both for and non profit.

For any church worth keeping the only difference it will make is the paperwork the accountant does, for the vast majority it will shut down piles of legal loopholes and expose corruption.

Wonder why european churches are a dying breed? There isn't any personal profit to be made there, and the good people saw fit to have their governments establish semi-functional systems of care based around moral ideals.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#194

Post by ben_w »

brohee wrote: post #159
ben_w wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Atheism is its own religion - requires faith to believe. Atheism is two (or more) different things. It is both the active belief in the non-existence of any God, and also the passive lack of any belief in any God. It’s not like I have to have active faith in the non-existence of Quetzalcoatl to have no interest in worshiping that deity. And I’m saying this as someone who went from Catholicism via Wicca to something…

> It is both the active belief in the non-existence of any God, and also the passive lack of any belief in any God. The second one would be agnosticism.

Agnosticism is that the existence or non-existence is unknowable, which is related but not quite the same, hence me specifying “Apatheism or Ignosticism” rather than Ietsism or Agnostic atheism.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#195

Post by john4534243 »

forgotmypw17 wrote: post #4

Churches get a bad rap these days, for many reasons. I want to take a minute to defend them. Right away, I want to say that I am not defending religion-driven bigotry, nor megachurches, nor abuse. I don't know about Canada, but in the U.S. churches are still where communities meet, where people connect with the spiritual world, and also the ones doing most of the "heavy lifting" on any kind of charity activity. They…

Every major religious book preaches against women rights and other bad stuff. The churches(or any other religious organization's) goal is to make the society conform to the religion as much is permitted at that point in time.

> nor expecting you to sit through a sermon like the old days

Its because America has come a long way to instill the freedom in the minds of people and the church knows if they force too much people will not turn up. So they relax it for now but once people become enough religious, they will move the needle a little further until there are no independence left. Don't fall for the charity stuff.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#196

Post by john4534243 »

ranman wrote: post #97

Everyone commenting about how great churches are? You’re absolutely delusional. The gross majority of these organizations are bigoted and racist. I grew up in the southern United States and experienced all manner of churches. I don’t care how great your church is. Give me 20 minutes with your congregation and I’ll find the racists and bigots. These assholes promote terrible mental and physical health. They don’t beli…

If anything religion is very good at making good people behave bad without feeling guilty about it.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#197

Post by juskrey »

henriquemaia wrote: post #190
juskrey wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, you were raised by fraudster, to begin with, and have seen only fraud. The whole Western modern humanism (which we like so much) is based on Christianity.

Yes, historically, Christianity's theological contribution was the idea of a god that cares equally for everyone. But western humanism goes beyond that (building upon) in that human life is valuable in itself, regardless of the social, economical and, the big innovation, religious/ideological stand of that particular individual. All of that is supported by philosophical arguments, giving western humanism a much older…

Sorry, who were all that Western humanists you are talking about and where (ideologically) did they come from?

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#198

Post by rational_indian »

henriquemaia wrote: post #190
juskrey wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, you were raised by fraudster, to begin with, and have seen only fraud. The whole Western modern humanism (which we like so much) is based on Christianity.

Yes, historically, Christianity's theological contribution was the idea of a god that cares equally for everyone. But western humanism goes beyond that (building upon) in that human life is valuable in itself, regardless of the social, economical and, the big innovation, religious/ideological stand of that particular individual. All of that is supported by philosophical arguments, giving western humanism a much older…

> Yes, historically, Christianity's theological contribution was the idea of a god that cares equally for everyone.

Only if you believe in him! The "caring" is not unconditional.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#199

Post by john4534243 »

ranman wrote: post #122
stormdennis wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in the southern United States and experienced all manner of churches. They’re universally bad. How many churches are you an expert on, exactly?

Well I was raised by a famous “pastor” who traveled around and “preached” to both receptive and dismissive congregations across the US. I experienced more churches than most people. I’m telling you this whole Christianity thing is a scam. sudo apt-get remove religion It’s a mental cancer.

> I’m telling you this whole Christianity thing is a scam.

Its not just Christianity, Hinduism and Islam are also bad.

Re: Montreal is taxing churches (2017)

#200

Post by henriquemaia »

ranman wrote: post #140
Bayart wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I grew up in the southern United States That explains it. Your only experience with Christianity is with the oddest strains of it. I see that stuff pretty often with American "atheists". What they refer to as church feels like a fever dream, or something entirely alien. >Anyone who thinks, believes, or sells otherwise? You’re a lunatic. I disagree. You disagree with me, so you're insane.

Ive also traveled all over the planet and see versions of Christianity-lite or “Islam-lite”. It’s still mental cancer. Believing in an imaginary sky god in 2020 is a mental health crisis. It’s absolutely absurd. The scientologists who think that life was seeded by aliens have more to stand on than Christians do. You can’t even have a rational debate with a religious person because they will just fall back on “faith”

Let's be more generous with the opposing position. If, as been argued, we're religious by nature (which the worldwide spread of different, often contradictory, beliefs amply demonstrates), religion is not a mental cancer, and belief in X is not a mental crisis.

Like our innate tribalist tendency of viewing the whole world as an unending conflict between us and them, we, modern humans, must try to find solutions that take those characteristics in consideration, not pretend they do not exist.

It's no one fault to have a religious tendency. There's no bad faith in being a believer.

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