LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison • Hacker News Board

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#271

Post by jdmichal » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

saul_goodman wrote: post #130

skissane wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A case report from 1974 says that massive LSD overdoses can cause bleeding and hyperthermia, symptoms which could potentially be fatal without medical attention (but, in this case, medical attention was received and all survived) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/

Don't buy the hype, it's impossible to die from overdose of LSD. The one case I've read of it happening was highly suspect.

It's possible to overdose on water. I really, really doubt that there's no such thing as a lethal dose of LSD.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#272

Post by loceng » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:28 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #247

marcrosoft wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There should be no victimless crimes! This man made a product that others willingly wanted for themselves. There are no victims here. This can be applied to seatbelts, helmet laws, etc.

>> This man made a product that others willingly wanted for themselves. There are no victims here People may think LSD or cocaine is all well and good, but there are far more dangerous substances out there. Things like Carfentanil need to be regulated. So too all the so-called "date rape" drugs. Just because some guy wants a powerful, tasteless, anesthetic that can be readily dissolved in water doesn't mean we should…

"Date rape" drugs seem rampant in certain communities but aren't used (hopefully) for rape but self-dosing at smaller amounts for their effects; regardless if they are legal or not the solution is the same: being safe in your behaviour and environment.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#273

Post by marcrosoft » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:29 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #263

marcrosoft wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Control the action by the bad actor, not the drug. This same thinking was applied to LSD. “What if they put LSD in the water supply!”

>> Control the action by the bad actor, not the drug. That was what the legal system did in the 18th century. It didn't work. Allowing people to buy poisons, weapons, even explosives and only punishing them once they harmed others has been deemed unacceptable. We now prevent crime by limiting access to such substances, hand in hand with governments licensing who may access them. Don't like not having access to someth…

The problem with this logic as I see it is that you place the good/bad verdict in the hands of the gov. instead of the individual.

An example that comes to mind is Redbull and strike anywhere matches are banned in several countries. Both of these substances have been shown to be used responsibly in the majority of other countries.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#274

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:30 PM UTC

saul_goodman wrote: post #130

skissane wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A case report from 1974 says that massive LSD overdoses can cause bleeding and hyperthermia, symptoms which could potentially be fatal without medical attention (but, in this case, medical attention was received and all survived) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1129381/

Don't buy the hype, it's impossible to die from overdose of LSD. The one case I've read of it happening was highly suspect.

You can die from an overdose of water.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#275

Post by kerkeslager » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

ta17711771 wrote: post #177

kerkeslager wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with what you're saying isn't how it sounds, it's that there's no evidence for what you're saying. My understanding, looking at the history of psychedelic regulation, is that it had nothing to do with preventing people from opening their minds: the people who did the regulating don't think the concept of "opening your mind" even exists. I'll let John Ehrlichman (Nixon aide) explain: "The Nixon campaign in…

> that wasn't their intent The intent of the beat cop and the high-level official isn't always 1:1.

Agreed, but in a response to a comment whose claim is "It's more acceptable and state-sanctioned..." without differentiating who is doing the accepting or what elements of the state are doing the sanctioning, I think we've already accepted a level of oversimplification.

Reality is always more complicated than anyone says.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#276

Post by quickthrowman » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:34 PM UTC

yaktubi wrote: post #243

quickthrowman wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My rebuttal is “alcohol”. That settles any safety related debate, let’s move on. I’m dismissing “think of the children” and “equivalent to a tool designed to kill” (and that tool is completely legal in the US) lines as obvious trolls, I encourage anyone else rebutting to ignore that as well. Edit: To dismiss your argument that you edited in about dosage size and accidental ingestion. If LSD was legal, manufacturers w…

I agree with all of what you’re saying, but the comment I reply to says it “harms noone.” I am saying it does harm people. To be frank, I have taken a decent amount of LSD in teenage years and suffer permanent effects from it (all mental stuff like anxiety and paranoia). Granted some of it was probably made in someone’s garage (legal stuff could have some sort of standards). But still, LSD is dangerous and point bein…

> To be frank, I have taken a decent amount of LSD in teenage years and suffer permanent effects from it (all mental stuff like anxiety and paranoia).

What proof do you have that your anxiety and paranoia are caused by your teenage LSD intake? There are plenty of people who have issues with anxiety and paranoia that have never taken drugs.

Consider that 70-90% of schizophrenics are tobacco users, and most started young. This is an astounding rate of smoking for a population subgroup. Did tobacco use cause the schizophrenia or did schizophrenics seek out tobacco?

Plenty of cults operate without drugging their members with LSD, if it was effective I assume it would be more widespread considering mental, sexual, and physical abuse are illegal and used as tools by cult leaders to maintain the cult and its membership. See NXIVM for a recent example. Giving people LSD is far more benign than beating or raping them.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#277

Post by jhardy54 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

aspenmayer wrote: post #167

nlh wrote: post #144

I found this line from the article particularly interesting: “The court concluded that the 20 years served are sufficient for meeting the goals of incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, and rehabilitation.” Deterrence and rehabilitation (yeah, right) I knew were “goals” of the US prison system, but I never realized that “incapacitation” and “retribution” were actual legally-stated goals.

Maybe we’re the bad guys?

Only if you don't fight it. :~)

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#278

Post by pessimizer » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

grayhatter wrote: post #165

jakemal wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason such an inhumane black market can exist is because no one is allowed to produce it legally. I would argue regulators are responsible for the harm caused by the trade.

No, you have your logic backwards. The conclusion that with lax drug laws, there'd be less violence associated with drug manufacturing and selling is correct. But the laws don't cause the violence, they make it so violent individuals are the only one's willing to fill the supply. If I outlaw [drug], I'm not responsible because you kill someone trying to sell [drug].

Let's not pretend that "outlaw [drug]" doesn't mean "threaten to harm or kill people distributing [drug]." If you sanitize it into an abstraction, it intentionally conceals who is starting the cycle of violence.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#279

Post by craftinator » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

perl4ever wrote: post #194

site-packages1 wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an unacceptable risk for people who didn’t consent, but that’s a different matter. We should punish people who give others dangerous things without consent.

Well, you can get into trouble if you start playing around with radioactive material, too. I think "The Radioactive Boy Scout" has been mentioned on HN a few times. I think a reason why dangerous things are regulated is because even though they don't always lead to harm, the harm can be grave and impossible to undo. Even if an unexpected trip doesn't technically lead to permanent brain damage, if the behavior were mi…

Apparently it's dead comment time, yay! But yes, some things are dangerous. LSD is less dangerous than many many legal things, such as guns, alcohol, driving, etc, so why is it illegal?

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#280

Post by spacechild1 » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 5:38 PM UTC

sybarita wrote: post #22

eindiran wrote: post #2

There was an article several years ago in Vice which mentioned him: https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/nndz9z/life-is-a-cosmic-g...

Please read this, Krystle is an evil person https://thislandpress.com/2013/07/28/subterranean-psychonaut...

Wow, what a crazy and sickening story! I remember that I've stumbled across her Youtube-videos (Neurosoup) about 10 years ago. I had no idea...