LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison • Hacker News Board

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#161

Post by nsilvestri » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:31 PM UTC

HenryKissinger wrote: post #151

worldsayshi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 years for each one That is incredible. For a crime that harms noone.

I mean, the organized crime groups that sell these drugs do harm people, by way of murders, human trafficking, violent crimes and property crimes. Funding criminals and terrorists is surely worthy of punishment, do you not agree? But I agree that twenty years is excessive. A week of prison or two would be enough.

LSD is not associated with major organized crime groups like cartels. It tends to be manufactured domestically in the Pacific Northwest and in semi-rural locations across the US.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#162

Post by arpa » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:33 PM UTC

zelly wrote: post #125

a2h wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ergotamine Tartrate. Interestingly, ET is used to treat cluster headaches and migraines.

LSD treats cluster headaches, for some people permanently: https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/06/lsd-alleviates-suici...

On the other hand if you have a migraine while tripping, it's not great. Taking triptanes is, well, risky as their interaction has not been thoroughly researched (i wonder why) and they both do stuff to HT receptors - so it's probably safer to endure the trip and take drugs afterwards. Good thing is that on LSD it is not "you"that suffers, just someones' body ;)

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#163

Post by asimpletune » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:35 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #105

tazjin wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common miscommunication here is that people perceive the statement as saying "psychedelics are the ONLY way of learning certain things", whereas what they should perceive is "psychedelics are ONE (very efficient) way of learning certain things". The thing is that for people whose normal life does not include pursuing knowledge and understanding just for the sake of it (and I think this might be most people), it's…

Is there any credible evidence that psychedelics reliably and "efficiently" help people learn things?

Yes, there's a whole book about this in fact, "How to Change Your Mind"

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#164

Post by wayneftw » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

cheschire wrote: post #159

HenryKissinger wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the organized crime groups that sell these drugs do harm people, by way of murders, human trafficking, violent crimes and property crimes. Funding criminals and terrorists is surely worthy of punishment, do you not agree? But I agree that twenty years is excessive. A week of prison or two would be enough.

Ugh. Your post is a perfect example of a valid argument, and yet a bunch of people downvote you instead of just having a conversation. Two sheets is at least a few hundred tabs and that is definitely within the realm of possession with intent to sell, legally speaking. And your conclusion wasn't even harsh like "they earned 20" or anything. You clearly said the punishment was harsh for the crime. Jeez people, learn t…

That’s because everybody here already knows that keeping drugs illegal is what is actually funding criminal organizations.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#165

Post by grayhatter » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:36 PM UTC

jakemal wrote: post #154

HenryKissinger wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the organized crime groups that sell these drugs do harm people, by way of murders, human trafficking, violent crimes and property crimes. Funding criminals and terrorists is surely worthy of punishment, do you not agree? But I agree that twenty years is excessive. A week of prison or two would be enough.

The only reason such an inhumane black market can exist is because no one is allowed to produce it legally. I would argue regulators are responsible for the harm caused by the trade.

No, you have your logic backwards. The conclusion that with lax drug laws, there'd be less violence associated with drug manufacturing and selling is correct. But the laws don't cause the violence, they make it so violent individuals are the only one's willing to fill the supply.

If I outlaw [drug], I'm not responsible because you kill someone trying to sell [drug].

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#166

Post by rurban » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:39 PM UTC

Bootwizard wrote: post #93

masklinn wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For some reasons the feds in the 90s were unusually interested in prosecuting psychedelics. Psychedelics = hippies = anti-war left. A well-known and somewhat similar "unusual interest" was in prosecuting crack versus coke.

Oh it wasn't unusual. It was intentional. A war on poor and minority (mostly black) communities starting with Reagan's "War on Drugs"

Nope, much earlier. MKULTRA, the secret CIA program to administer LSD to do mind control and other stupid shit, started in the 50ies under the Dulles bothers already. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_MKUltra They also did lots of public advertising for LSD via popular figures like Timothy Leary, besides frying a lot of innocent brains with it.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#167

Post by aspenmayer » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

nlh wrote: post #144

I found this line from the article particularly interesting: “The court concluded that the 20 years served are sufficient for meeting the goals of incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, and rehabilitation.” Deterrence and rehabilitation (yeah, right) I knew were “goals” of the US prison system, but I never realized that “incapacitation” and “retribution” were actual legally-stated goals.

Maybe we’re the bad guys?

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#168

Post by ketzu » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

eof wrote: post #101

ketzu wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reasons why tobacco and alcohol are legal are mostly historical and they are basically the only exceptions. There are many drugs that kill people but keep them subdued that are illegal. It seems to me that is not the reason for which are legal and which ones are not.

That’s an over simplistic and not realistic view. Marihuana had a similar history as tobacco, opiates go back thousands of years, caffeine is deemed fine, alcohol was actually illegal for years, etc. Considering the counter culture and anti war (and thus anti military industrial) sentiment being highly correlated with hippies getting lit—I think it’s impossible not to come to the conclusion that the powers that be co…

Yes I was simplifying quite a lot. But "historical" wasn't just meant as "was there already", even though it plays a huge part.

As far as I know, marijuana was mostly made illegal in the 30s and earlier in the US, mostly due to racist origins and with arguments mostly opposite those of hippies (e.g., creating bloodlust).

I forgot about Caffeine, that's true, as it is often not considered a drug by many (or at least not taught as one). But it's also not one of a dulling effect, as far as I can tell at least.

That they tried to make alcohol illegal and failed because of it's societal acceptance is another indicator that the original claim is not so obviously true:

> It's more acceptable and state-sanctioned to sell drugs that kill people while keeping them subdued, than ones that keep them alive and open their minds.

Overall it feels more that the general Zeitgeist of regulating narcotics failed on alcohol but succeeded with often racist propaganda for other popular drugs.

But that's just my understanding and I am not very well versed in any of those topics, so I'd be happy to listen to a better explanation. (I wouldn't be surprised that anti-establishment gatherings with strong drug usage correlation wouldn't exactly make legalisation popular in the establishment. But the history article I read on that just now claimed that sentences were reduced during the 70s because of the wake of hippies.)

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#169

Post by pstuart » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:45 PM UTC

cheschire wrote: post #159

HenryKissinger wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, the organized crime groups that sell these drugs do harm people, by way of murders, human trafficking, violent crimes and property crimes. Funding criminals and terrorists is surely worthy of punishment, do you not agree? But I agree that twenty years is excessive. A week of prison or two would be enough.

Ugh. Your post is a perfect example of a valid argument, and yet a bunch of people downvote you instead of just having a conversation. Two sheets is at least a few hundred tabs and that is definitely within the realm of possession with intent to sell, legally speaking. And your conclusion wasn't even harsh like "they earned 20" or anything. You clearly said the punishment was harsh for the crime. Jeez people, learn t…

I downvoted for the initial sentence: "I mean, the organized crime groups that sell these drugs do harm people"

By that reasoning every gas station should be closed for selling oil that came from Saudi Arabia.

How about them apples?

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#170

Post by BTCOG » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 3:46 PM UTC

wayneftw wrote: post #164

cheschire wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ugh. Your post is a perfect example of a valid argument, and yet a bunch of people downvote you instead of just having a conversation. Two sheets is at least a few hundred tabs and that is definitely within the realm of possession with intent to sell, legally speaking. And your conclusion wasn't even harsh like "they earned 20" or anything. You clearly said the punishment was harsh for the crime. Jeez people, learn t…

That’s because everybody here already knows that keeping drugs illegal is what is actually funding criminal organizations.

Bingo. Plus, as it pertains to LSD itself, what he said was patently false. LSD has always been largely distributed among intellectual circles for decent low prices and among hippie circles. Real LSD is not meth, and it's not heroin. It wasn't and isn't trafficked by cartels. Maybe fake synthetic chemicals being sold as "acid," but not pure LSD-25. It was a perpetuated government War on Drugs (tm) myth.