LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison • Hacker News Board

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#201

Post by grumple » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:16 PM UTC

yaktubi wrote: post #193

worldsayshi wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 20 years for each one That is incredible. For a crime that harms noone.

Not sure I’d agree with “harms noone.” I have taken LSD and easily walk in the middle of the road with no cause for concern. Imagine a child accidentally eating some of it, etc. Could be worse than a loaded gun. I’m all for legalizing natural stuff (mushrooms, cannabis, even coca plants) but once chemists start concentrating things or turning them into droplets it becomes extremely dangerous. For instance, mushrooms…

Worse than a loaded gun? That’s insane, the gun can kill you. LSD can’t. There are a multitude of things in every household that a child could kill themselves with (various medicines, cleaning supplies, knives). That is not a reason to ban those things, it’s a reason not to leave small children unattended.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#202

Post by pstuart » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:18 PM UTC

grayhatter wrote: post #181

pstuart wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted for the initial sentence: "I mean, the organized crime groups that sell these drugs do harm people" By that reasoning every gas station should be closed for selling oil that came from Saudi Arabia. How about them apples?

I mean yeah, if you view fruits from a forbidden tree as poisoned/immoral. The logic is sound. So, they probably don't like dem apples, they're poisoned.

Except it's quite possible that the LSD supply chain had no violence associated with it, so it's pure conjecture biased by a "drugs are bad, m'kay?" attitude. Those apples are far from guaranteed to be poisoned.

I've seen the same argument about cannabis, and while some may come from cartels, much of it comes from indy growers and that supply chain is more than likely violence free.

As mentioned by another, the whole element of criminality is manufactured by the state and was designed from the start as a tool of oppression, not to "keep us safe".

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#203

Post by gverrilla » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

nyolfen wrote: post #128

gverrilla wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

demand for lsd is low nowadays. doesn't compare too cannabis or cocaine or mdma. it's not a very good party drug lmao

LSD use is actually higher than it has ever been in the US. i apologize for lacking a source, but this was something i saw about a week ago, in the context of highlighting its relative popularity with young, college-educated americans. that said, it’s hardly a cash cow in the way meth and fentanyl are; and as someone said elsewhere on this thread, one person could probably suppy the whole country.

I'm 99,9% positive demand for LSD is not higher than it has ever been in the US because of the hippie era, when it was huge. The problem with LSD as a product is not only that few people use it. Amongst those that use it, most won't use many times. Compared to my social circle I'm a pretty heavy user, had around 30 trips in the span of almost 15 years. Most people I have met didn't trip more than 3 or 4 times in their lifetime. A few from 5-10, and only 2 or 3 over that. The only reason LSD is and was in the past cheap is because of how easy it is to scale it's production + how high the barriers for production are. Otherwise a hit would cost very very high, considering the economics of the matter.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#204

Post by primroot » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:19 PM UTC

grayhatter wrote: post #165

jakemal wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only reason such an inhumane black market can exist is because no one is allowed to produce it legally. I would argue regulators are responsible for the harm caused by the trade.

No, you have your logic backwards. The conclusion that with lax drug laws, there'd be less violence associated with drug manufacturing and selling is correct. But the laws don't cause the violence, they make it so violent individuals are the only one's willing to fill the supply. If I outlaw [drug], I'm not responsible because you kill someone trying to sell [drug].

Everyone responding here shared a similar opinion regarding the idea of laws being responsible for the violence, so let me share another problem where the laws play a role, namely legal dangerous fake substitutes. Take for instance 25I-NBOMe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25I-NBOMe#Legal_status It remained (has remained?) legal in many places for more than a decade.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#205

Post by DenisM » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

dspearson wrote: post #135

hnlurker wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crack and cocaine aren't really all that similar. Crack and meth are tho. Guess what, they both have the same mandatory mins too. When you look for racism everywhere, you find it everywhere. Let's be more objective, eh?

"Crack" and cocaine are literally the same drug.

How come we hear about dangerous meth-heads and crack-heads, but not about coke-heads?

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#206

Post by aeternum » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:20 PM UTC

smabie wrote: post #8

For some reasons the feds in the 90s were unusually interested in prosecuting psychedelics. I'm of the opinion that all drugs should be legal, but even if I wasn't, I think I would still question why LSD manufacturers were getting such long sentences around that time. Never really made sense to me.

There was definitely unreasonable fear around LSD. I remember my parents not allowing us to use temporary tattoos because they were concerned they might be laced with LSD.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#207

Post by zajd » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:22 PM UTC

aspenmayer wrote: post #167

nlh wrote: post #144

I found this line from the article particularly interesting: “The court concluded that the 20 years served are sufficient for meeting the goals of incapacitation, deterrence, retribution, and rehabilitation.” Deterrence and rehabilitation (yeah, right) I knew were “goals” of the US prison system, but I never realized that “incapacitation” and “retribution” were actual legally-stated goals.

Maybe we’re the bad guys?

Maybe?

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#208

Post by naringas » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:24 PM UTC

CivBase wrote: post #105

tazjin wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The common miscommunication here is that people perceive the statement as saying "psychedelics are the ONLY way of learning certain things", whereas what they should perceive is "psychedelics are ONE (very efficient) way of learning certain things". The thing is that for people whose normal life does not include pursuing knowledge and understanding just for the sake of it (and I think this might be most people), it's…

Is there any credible evidence that psychedelics reliably and "efficiently" help people learn things?

I think it more accurate to say they make people question things

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#209

Post by melq » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:26 PM UTC

smabie wrote: post #8

For some reasons the feds in the 90s were unusually interested in prosecuting psychedelics. I'm of the opinion that all drugs should be legal, but even if I wasn't, I think I would still question why LSD manufacturers were getting such long sentences around that time. Never really made sense to me.

One reason was that the government didn't like the people using the the psychedelics in the first place, and drugs were a convenient justification for going after those people. Marijuana prohibition in the US is the same story.

Re: LSD chemist William Pickard to be released from prison

#210

Post by quickthrowman » Sat, Jul 25, 2020, 4:27 PM UTC

the_other wrote: post #188

grayhatter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you have your logic backwards. The conclusion that with lax drug laws, there'd be less violence associated with drug manufacturing and selling is correct. But the laws don't cause the violence, they make it so violent individuals are the only one's willing to fill the supply. If I outlaw [drug], I'm not responsible because you kill someone trying to sell [drug].

The laws don’t directly cause the violence, by they do create an environment in which violence is more likely (or violence around drug manufacture and trade).

Absolutely. Violence related to drug dealing is a result on the insane profit margins on heroin, cocaine, and meth. It’s possible to make 70-90% net profit on cocaine if you can get it at wholesale, which is nuts. Of course people will kill each other for the chance to make 90 cents on the dollar.

If you bought some Chinese fentanyl and made “heroin” I bet it’s closer to 95-99% net, imagine having a money machine that spit out 20 dollars for every dollar you put in. No wonder people kill each other over drugs.