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Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

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Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#191

Post by cmehdy »

aspenmayer wrote: post #69
cmehdy wrote: post #44

I couldn't find the actual paper with this press release, even when searching on the website itself (which ended up just returning blank pages to me for some reason). I found more info through another website[0]. At least this helps me, in principle, rule out the idea that they could have been mixing correlation and causation. The one thing that surprises me is that they quickly go on to conclude that therapies shoul…

I missed it on the first read too: it’s at the very top where it says Read the journal article Something about the format or style of that part of the page made my mind assume it was a link to a related page and my eyes just skipped right over it. I have included the link for you below. https://www.apa.org/pubs/journals/releases/abn-abn0000428.pd...

Thank you! I'll take a better look at the whole thing now. It seems like that journal works with a focus on empirical data but empirical doesn't necessarily mean robust statistical methods, however the paper seems to be actually serious about this.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#192

Post by carti »

cc_ashby wrote: post #7

But what are you sacrificing in return for your “perseverance”? Very few people tend to look at the mind as a system, and also seem to ignore that depression, anxiety, panic disorders, etc. happen for a reason. The reason why modern humanity have increased risk of these symptoms is because they know, given their perhaps wrongly learned models of the world or otherwise, that even when they achieve their so-called life…

> Most types of meditative studies also force this notion of blindness.

In my experience, many seem to encourage the opposite (a higher awareness of one's emotional state). Perhaps certain techniques could be considered similar to horse blinders, but I definitely don't think "blindness" is the goal.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#194

Post by vmchale »

podgaj wrote: post #152

I do not know how many people here have "Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders" but I am on disability for all three and it runs in my family on my mother's side. So what is this article saying? Me and my family just do not have perseverance? That we lack the "will" not to be depressed and anxious? That I just need to "Aspir[e] toward personal and career goals"? HA! No, it's not true. You see, they found we all have a…

> they finally found that it was not that I did not have goals, but that I needed a low protein diet and some medications that a psychiatrist could not give me, and now I am doing better.

I think that's a problem with the influence of psychology within psychiatry? There is little ability to distinguish organic disorders and the endogenous vs. exogenous question only really gets resolved with respect to whole diagnoses, less common to distinguish w.r.t. an individual.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#195

Post by vmchale »

kissgyorgy wrote: post #31

> People who showed more goal persistence and optimism... had greater reductions in depression ... Isn't a big part of depression is pessimism? I feel like this sentence is the same as saying "People who showed no signs of depression ... had greater reductions in depression"

The paper says its a bidirectional association.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#196

Post by podgaj »

gfodor wrote: post #190
podgaj wrote: post #152

I do not know how many people here have "Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders" but I am on disability for all three and it runs in my family on my mother's side. So what is this article saying? Me and my family just do not have perseverance? That we lack the "will" not to be depressed and anxious? That I just need to "Aspir[e] toward personal and career goals"? HA! No, it's not true. You see, they found we all have a…

I empathize with your frustration, but you're letting your personal experience override logic. You've made a simple logical error: a study claiming that people who have goals can fend off depression does not imply that those with depression have it because they do not have goals. It means that some people who don't have goals, but do have depression, may remedy it by getting goals. But not everyone. If the research a…

That was my point. This study tells us nothing. The problem is not with people or the doctors, it is with these idiotic studies.

From the study: "People who showed more goal persistence and optimism during the first assessment in the mid-1990s had greater reductions in depression, anxiety and panic disorders across the 18 years, according to the authors.

And throughout those years, people who began with fewer mental health problems showed more increased perseverance toward life goals and were better at focusing on the positive side of unfortunate events, said Zainal."

and they conclude with your inverted causation:

"Our findings suggest that people can improve their mental health by raising or maintaining high levels of tenacity, resilience and optimism,” she said. “Aspiring toward personal and career goals can make people feel like their lives have meaning. On the other hand, disengaging from striving toward those aims or having a cynical attitude can have high mental health costs.”

So people who are not depressed do not easily get depressed. Really? That is the ground breaking work? Re read that part, again and again, and tell me where my logic is wrong. They are saying correlation is causal.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#197

Post by vmchale »

cmehdy wrote: post #44

I couldn't find the actual paper with this press release, even when searching on the website itself (which ended up just returning blank pages to me for some reason). I found more info through another website[0]. At least this helps me, in principle, rule out the idea that they could have been mixing correlation and causation. The one thing that surprises me is that they quickly go on to conclude that therapies shoul…

> Treatments for MDD, GAD, and PD should attempt to enhance perseverance and optimism."

> A predictor isn't necessarily an actuator.

And moreover interventions can be harmful. Unless they know it's possible to correct such a deficit, identifying a deficit only does so much.

I think there's more awareness that treatments can be harmful in medicine, oddly.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#198

Post by vmchale »

bmitc wrote: post #74

In another article, "Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders Can Fend Off Perseverance Toward Life Goals". Unfortunately, I find this article seems to be supporting the ol' "pull yourself up by the bootstraps" method of treating mental disorders. What were the other aspects of the study? Were medications monitored? What level of therapy was being given? I don't see anything in the article that suggests it couldn't have…

> In another article, "Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders Can Fend Off Perseverance Toward Life Goals".

Especially since the article said it was bidirectional :p

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#199

Post by Zelphyr »

maybelsyrup wrote: post #13
Zelphyr wrote: post #11

While I'm not a psychologist my reading of that seems to confirm one of the aspects of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy (ACT) which is to clarify ones values and work towards them. For example; it might be one's goal to travel to another country but they are afraid of flying. Traveling is a goal/value thus they would work towards accepting the presence and sensations of the fear of flying in order to achieve that go…

I'm a therapist, and I'm also an ACT practitioner. You're on the money here, though I'd encourage you to think even bigger. To use your example about travel: extend it further. In ACT, goals and values couldn't be more different, and we spend a lot of time helping patients distinguish between the two. "Traveling" is a goal - the value would be found in "why travel?", what does it get you? If the answer to that is the…

Thank you so much for the clarification between goals and values!! AND for the work you do! Finding a therapist who practices ACT changed my life.

Re: Perseverance Toward Life Goals Can Fend Off Depression, Anxiety, Panic Disorders

#200

Post by avindroth »

kerkeslager wrote: post #168
avindroth wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The discussion at hand is about the effects of “Perseverance towards life goals” when somebody has depression, anxiety, or what have you. The article mentions it is useful, and I can no doubt agree with that. It can be meditative, having a mission and all (perhaps one that you do not 100% agree with). It is satisfying, and can keep life afloat. But this “fake mission” trick should be just that — a trick. A placeholde…

Jesus dude, I'm really not sure whose post you're responding to, because you didn't address anything I said in my post. > The discussion at hand is about the effects of “Perseverance towards life goals” when somebody has depression, anxiety, or what have you. The article mentions it is useful, and I can no doubt agree with that. It can be meditative, having a mission and all (perhaps one that you do not 100% agree wi…

You are taking this way more personally than you should be. You should probably check yourself and see if you aren’t being an asshole to other people with your supposed “intelligence”.

Ad hominem aside, is it so hard to understand the words “implicit” and “explicit”? They are English words, and implicit vs. explicit goals really isn’t all that hard to understand. Maybe people around you don’t use this language, but implicit vs. explicit models is a dichotomy I hear all the time among pretty smart people. And very useful distinction.

I don’t think you are capable of ingesting in new information or original thought. Your response to what I said about “fake mission” clearly demonstrates this. I also never said you don’t know your desires. I don’t even know you. Do you have so much time that you feel personally attacked by some (you would call) random assortment of words on the internet? Jeez.

I am seeing your other comments and you are just not that positive overall. Being skeptical and negative and doubtful isn’t a hallmark of intelligence, mind you.

Please take your matters elsewhere.

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